5 ms·

It isn't the police that is making mexico one of the most violent places in the world, I'm sure they play a part in it as in all developing countries but said v

It isn't the police that is making mexico one of the most violent places in the world, I'm sure they play a part in it as in all developing countries but said violence ends up being linked to the "violent warlords" anyway more often than not in the form of corrupt policemen working for them. Tourists tend to be treated with kiddy gloves by organized crime because of the response that diplomatic blunders trigger. Odds are as well that, if you as a tourist went out of your way to go to a warlord controlled area you were(or were seen as) their client.

dghlsakjg 4y ago
I was in a non-touristy part of mexico, and the only crime we had was when someone left their iPhone with their stuff at a park and the phone disappeared (I would expect the same almost anywhere in North America). Meanwhile the police shakedowns were incessant. We ended up paying over $100 USDd/day to police in straight up bribes for made up offenses.
- notch898a 4y ago
  100% this is my experience. I don't ever go to the tourist towns so maybe police are less hassling there.
- SlickNixon 4y ago
  Has it occurred to you that the police and cartels might not be operating as separate entities when it comes to shaking down tourists for cash?
  - notch898a 4y ago
    It's occurred to me, but this happens even in places where tourists basically aren't found and there is no well oiled machine for it even be worth the cartel's time to like keep watch for tourists and call the police to shake them down. That and the cartel can just straight up roll up with guns and take all your shit, why wouldn't they just do that if they wanted your money? Instead you find the cartels want nothing and the police want a bribe that would amount to very little for the cartels and not at all worth some arrangement picking up pennies with bumfuck police that almost never see a tourist.
    - SlickNixon 4y ago
      You're making a number of assumptions for what's required in this process beyond "shake down any tourists you like and give us a cut when you do (or we'll kill you)". >That and the cartel can just straight up roll up with guns and take all your shit, why wouldn't they just do that if they wanted your money? Being robbed by the government is more palatable to tourists. Would you travel to a place where ununiformed criminals shook you down for $100 a day?
      - notch898a 4y ago
        >"shake down any tourists you like and give us a cut when you do (or we'll kill you)". What you are describing is a tax. A tax is generally understood to reduce an activity which is why cigarettes etc are highly taxed. Not sure this is making the argument you think it is. In fact you are describing a system where the cartel disincentives this behavior, by making it less profitable. >Being robbed by the government is more palatable to tourists. Hard disagree with this one.
        SlickNixon 4y ago
        > What you are describing... by making it less profitable. Absolutely correct and totally irrelevant to the original point, which was that the administrative overhead for the cartel is vanishingly small. >Hard disagree It was palatable enough for you to travel to Mexico.
        notch898a 4y ago
        I mean yeah, but I've also travelled as a private citizen to a number of places that someone politically-uncorrect would call "3rd world shitholes" like Iraq, Syria, etc. I've travelled places where I've been handed an AK by the locals and basically told "good fucking luck, try not to die." I'll go pretty much anywhere; I've been shot at, I've been robbed, I've been pushed out of cars abandoned in the middle of nowhere, I've had my shit jacked before and I generally not hold it against the police or the country in general if ununiformed criminals do that. This is purely a matter of opinion but being told I have to worry about the cartels and the police is a bigger pill to swallow than just worrying about the cartels. The fact I personally was willing to go doesn't indicate I find being robbed in uniform more palatable.

dghlsakjg 4y ago

I was in a non-touristy part of mexico, and the only crime we had was when someone left their iPhone with their stuff at a park and the phone disappeared (I would expect the same almost anywhere in North America). Meanwhile the police shakedowns were incessant. We ended up paying over $100 USDd/day to police in straight up bribes for made up offenses.

notch898a 4y ago
100% this is my experience. I don't ever go to the tourist towns so maybe police are less hassling there.
SlickNixon 4y ago
Has it occurred to you that the police and cartels might not be operating as separate entities when it comes to shaking down tourists for cash?
- notch898a 4y ago
  It's occurred to me, but this happens even in places where tourists basically aren't found and there is no well oiled machine for it even be worth the cartel's time to like keep watch for tourists and call the police to shake them down. That and the cartel can just straight up roll up with guns and take all your shit, why wouldn't they just do that if they wanted your money? Instead you find the cartels want nothing and the police want a bribe that would amount to very little for the cartels and not at all worth some arrangement picking up pennies with bumfuck police that almost never see a tourist.
  - SlickNixon 4y ago
    You're making a number of assumptions for what's required in this process beyond "shake down any tourists you like and give us a cut when you do (or we'll kill you)". >That and the cartel can just straight up roll up with guns and take all your shit, why wouldn't they just do that if they wanted your money? Being robbed by the government is more palatable to tourists. Would you travel to a place where ununiformed criminals shook you down for $100 a day?
    - notch898a 4y ago
      >"shake down any tourists you like and give us a cut when you do (or we'll kill you)". What you are describing is a tax. A tax is generally understood to reduce an activity which is why cigarettes etc are highly taxed. Not sure this is making the argument you think it is. In fact you are describing a system where the cartel disincentives this behavior, by making it less profitable. >Being robbed by the government is more palatable to tourists. Hard disagree with this one.
      - SlickNixon 4y ago
        > What you are describing... by making it less profitable. Absolutely correct and totally irrelevant to the original point, which was that the administrative overhead for the cartel is vanishingly small. >Hard disagree It was palatable enough for you to travel to Mexico.
        notch898a 4y ago
        I mean yeah, but I've also travelled as a private citizen to a number of places that someone politically-uncorrect would call "3rd world shitholes" like Iraq, Syria, etc. I've travelled places where I've been handed an AK by the locals and basically told "good fucking luck, try not to die." I'll go pretty much anywhere; I've been shot at, I've been robbed, I've been pushed out of cars abandoned in the middle of nowhere, I've had my shit jacked before and I generally not hold it against the police or the country in general if ununiformed criminals do that. This is purely a matter of opinion but being told I have to worry about the cartels and the police is a bigger pill to swallow than just worrying about the cartels. The fact I personally was willing to go doesn't indicate I find being robbed in uniform more palatable.