4 ms·

It's probably easier to start a small business in Albania though than it is in the EU - mostly due to less regulation and, yes, also corruption - you need less

by ibz 4y ago

It's probably easier to start a small business in Albania though than it is in the EU - mostly due to less regulation and, yes, also corruption - you need less money to bend the rules - and everybody can do that - not just those with pockets deep enough to lobby.

emptyfile 4y ago
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vkou 4y ago
I may be wildly and incorrectly speculating here, but my immediate assumption about any area with a weak government and a serious corruption and organized crime problem is that starting a successful business is a great way to have a few friendly people (maybe in uniforms, maybe without) show up at your house one day, to explain to you how they are going to be involved in said business. You'd probably find dealing with seven million pages of official Central European paperwork to be preferable to that sort of thing.
avianlyric 4y ago
There’s a reason why investors prefer to put their money into countries with strong judicial systems, well understood regulations, and stable governments. It makes it much easier to predict if something is going to be a good investment, and removes the risk of sudden unexpected changes in your operating environment which could sink your new business. I honestly have no idea why you would think that unpredictable corruption, and a lack of regulation is going to make it easier to start a business. Especially as corruption and weak regulation tend to only benefit the incumbents.
- TheGigaChad 4y ago
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- ibz 4y ago
  I didn't mean "investors". I meant local people. Average micro-business. I don't know Albania too well - I only spent a couple of weeks there, but I had a feeling it was bustling of small businesses. I have spent however years in other places which have a similar reputation (Indonesia, for example) - and yes, corruption is everywhere, but your average grandma can get out on the street with a cart and sell noodle soup or fried rice. This is something unheard of in the EU. She may have to pay a small bribe to a local gang, but hey - it is the local gang, that operates by the same rules for generations, and everybody knows how it works. So it is not unpredictable after all. You do have a good point, in that it throws off bigger investors, but people get by. They don't make a killing income, but neither do they starve. What is "predictable" for bigger investors though is unpredictable for these very people. No wonder the average grandma in the EU does not have the skills to start a small business, if needed. The laws and regulations are simply too complex for her. I guess the issue is with scaling a business in a corrupt environment (as opposed to starting it, which is 0 friction). Once you grow bigger than your local gang's area, you deal with higher and higher levels of corruption. God forbid you end up scaling a business to the point where you have to bribe the highest level gang - the national government. That would be very expensive and risky (the regime can always change - new people, new demands). BUT assuming you stay small, you can make a living running your own (family) business without much friction.
  - TheGigaChad 4y ago
    [dead]
  - avianlyric 4y ago
    > No wonder the average grandma in the EU does not have the skills to start a small business, if needed. The laws and regulations are simply too complex for her. Really I don’t understand where you get your information from. I’ve started businesses in the EU, it’s trivial easy, there are no complicated laws or regulations to worry about, at least not for micro-businesses. The most likely reason you don’t see so many micro-business in the EU is simply because people have other options that provide greater prosperity and security than running a micro-business. Running businesses are hard, running tiny ones is stressful. You’ve got no safety net, no income guarantee, no rights to holidays or time off. Going and working for an employer that can provide all that is simply a better life for most.
alephnerd 4y ago
Albania is in the bottom of the pack by ease of business rankings - the only European (not EU) countries worse than it are Bosnia and San Marino. Every other EU country ranks better than Albania, even Greece and Bulgaria https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/IC.BUS.EASE.XQ?end=2019&most_recent_value_desc=false&start=2019&view=chart https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/IC.BUS.EASE.XQ?end=2019...
- kwere 4y ago
  San Marino is an easy place of doing business, a country with 34k citizens in wich you can really meet with the top brass to solve your problems. The problem is getting a clearance to start and reside in the country. They can get quite picky about the businesses but if you are in manufacturing or "light" research they are already oriented to service you.
  - alephnerd 4y ago
    That makes sense! It's basically a small town that has retained some form of soverignity since the Roman era. Are you from San Marino by chance? It seems like such a cool and wonky political system, and would love to learn more!
    - kwere 4y ago
      I'm italiano not Sammarinese, but we know a lot about them as we speak the same language! Its mostly known for its past as a tax haven, still is with some accounting tricks (like trust funds that can end paying 1.7% on income) and its various ways in which avoided being annexed by other countries, like refusing a land gift from Napoleon (Rimini) to not end up being drawn in his conflicts and end up annexed
TheGigaChad 4y ago
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nivenkos 4y ago
Nah, protection money is expensive.
- ibz 4y ago
  I would guess, it really depends how far you go. Protection money for running a small mom&pop shop selling kebab or souvenirs for tourists is probably less than the protection money you pay for the same kinds of businesses to the government in Germany (percentage wise). But the more you want to scale the business and try to deal with higher and higher strata of gangs (all the way up to the national level), the more expensive it gets. And unpredictable. So my theory is - it is easy to start a micro-business in a corrupt environment, but it is hard to scale it.

by ibz 4y ago

emptyfile 4y ago

[dead]

vkou 4y ago

I may be wildly and incorrectly speculating here, but my immediate assumption about any area with a weak government and a serious corruption and organized crime problem is that starting a successful business is a great way to have a few friendly people (maybe in uniforms, maybe without) show up at your house one day, to explain to you how they are going to be involved in said business. You'd probably find dealing with seven million pages of official Central European paperwork to be preferable to that sort of thing.

avianlyric 4y ago

There’s a reason why investors prefer to put their money into countries with strong judicial systems, well understood regulations, and stable governments. It makes it much easier to predict if something is going to be a good investment, and removes the risk of sudden unexpected changes in your operating environment which could sink your new business. I honestly have no idea why you would think that unpredictable corruption, and a lack of regulation is going to make it easier to start a business. Especially as corruption and weak regulation tend to only benefit the incumbents.

TheGigaChad 4y ago
[dead]
ibz 4y ago
I didn't mean "investors". I meant local people. Average micro-business. I don't know Albania too well - I only spent a couple of weeks there, but I had a feeling it was bustling of small businesses. I have spent however years in other places which have a similar reputation (Indonesia, for example) - and yes, corruption is everywhere, but your average grandma can get out on the street with a cart and sell noodle soup or fried rice. This is something unheard of in the EU. She may have to pay a small bribe to a local gang, but hey - it is the local gang, that operates by the same rules for generations, and everybody knows how it works. So it is not unpredictable after all. You do have a good point, in that it throws off bigger investors, but people get by. They don't make a killing income, but neither do they starve. What is "predictable" for bigger investors though is unpredictable for these very people. No wonder the average grandma in the EU does not have the skills to start a small business, if needed. The laws and regulations are simply too complex for her. I guess the issue is with scaling a business in a corrupt environment (as opposed to starting it, which is 0 friction). Once you grow bigger than your local gang's area, you deal with higher and higher levels of corruption. God forbid you end up scaling a business to the point where you have to bribe the highest level gang - the national government. That would be very expensive and risky (the regime can always change - new people, new demands). BUT assuming you stay small, you can make a living running your own (family) business without much friction.
- TheGigaChad 4y ago
  [dead]
- avianlyric 4y ago
  > No wonder the average grandma in the EU does not have the skills to start a small business, if needed. The laws and regulations are simply too complex for her. Really I don’t understand where you get your information from. I’ve started businesses in the EU, it’s trivial easy, there are no complicated laws or regulations to worry about, at least not for micro-businesses. The most likely reason you don’t see so many micro-business in the EU is simply because people have other options that provide greater prosperity and security than running a micro-business. Running businesses are hard, running tiny ones is stressful. You’ve got no safety net, no income guarantee, no rights to holidays or time off. Going and working for an employer that can provide all that is simply a better life for most.

alephnerd 4y ago

Albania is in the bottom of the pack by ease of business rankings - the only European (not EU) countries worse than it are Bosnia and San Marino. Every other EU country ranks better than Albania, even Greece and Bulgaria https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/IC.BUS.EASE.XQ?end=2019&most_recent_value_desc=false&start=2019&view=chart https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/IC.BUS.EASE.XQ?end=2019...

kwere 4y ago
San Marino is an easy place of doing business, a country with 34k citizens in wich you can really meet with the top brass to solve your problems. The problem is getting a clearance to start and reside in the country. They can get quite picky about the businesses but if you are in manufacturing or "light" research they are already oriented to service you.
- alephnerd 4y ago
  That makes sense! It's basically a small town that has retained some form of soverignity since the Roman era. Are you from San Marino by chance? It seems like such a cool and wonky political system, and would love to learn more!
  - kwere 4y ago
    I'm italiano not Sammarinese, but we know a lot about them as we speak the same language! Its mostly known for its past as a tax haven, still is with some accounting tricks (like trust funds that can end paying 1.7% on income) and its various ways in which avoided being annexed by other countries, like refusing a land gift from Napoleon (Rimini) to not end up being drawn in his conflicts and end up annexed

TheGigaChad 4y ago

[dead]

nivenkos 4y ago

Nah, protection money is expensive.

ibz 4y ago
I would guess, it really depends how far you go. Protection money for running a small mom&pop shop selling kebab or souvenirs for tourists is probably less than the protection money you pay for the same kinds of businesses to the government in Germany (percentage wise). But the more you want to scale the business and try to deal with higher and higher strata of gangs (all the way up to the national level), the more expensive it gets. And unpredictable. So my theory is - it is easy to start a micro-business in a corrupt environment, but it is hard to scale it.