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Honestly the violent warlords are better. Just from my time in Mexico. Areas controlled by police the police will arrest you for any random reason. The viole

Honestly the violent warlords are better. Just from my time in Mexico. Areas controlled by police the police will arrest you for any random reason. The violent warlords are running drugs and have no interest in robbing a tourist for $20, it's a total waste of their time.

philippejara 4y ago
It isn't the police that is making mexico one of the most violent places in the world, I'm sure they play a part in it as in all developing countries but said violence ends up being linked to the "violent warlords" anyway more often than not in the form of corrupt policemen working for them. Tourists tend to be treated with kiddy gloves by organized crime because of the response that diplomatic blunders trigger. Odds are as well that, if you as a tourist went out of your way to go to a warlord controlled area you were(or were seen as) their client.
- dghlsakjg 4y ago
  I was in a non-touristy part of mexico, and the only crime we had was when someone left their iPhone with their stuff at a park and the phone disappeared (I would expect the same almost anywhere in North America). Meanwhile the police shakedowns were incessant. We ended up paying over $100 USDd/day to police in straight up bribes for made up offenses.
  - notch898a 4y ago
    100% this is my experience. I don't ever go to the tourist towns so maybe police are less hassling there.
  - SlickNixon 4y ago
    Has it occurred to you that the police and cartels might not be operating as separate entities when it comes to shaking down tourists for cash?
    - notch898a 4y ago
      It's occurred to me, but this happens even in places where tourists basically aren't found and there is no well oiled machine for it even be worth the cartel's time to like keep watch for tourists and call the police to shake them down. That and the cartel can just straight up roll up with guns and take all your shit, why wouldn't they just do that if they wanted your money? Instead you find the cartels want nothing and the police want a bribe that would amount to very little for the cartels and not at all worth some arrangement picking up pennies with bumfuck police that almost never see a tourist.
      - SlickNixon 4y ago
        You're making a number of assumptions for what's required in this process beyond "shake down any tourists you like and give us a cut when you do (or we'll kill you)". >That and the cartel can just straight up roll up with guns and take all your shit, why wouldn't they just do that if they wanted your money? Being robbed by the government is more palatable to tourists. Would you travel to a place where ununiformed criminals shook you down for $100 a day?
        notch898a 4y ago
        >"shake down any tourists you like and give us a cut when you do (or we'll kill you)". What you are describing is a tax. A tax is generally understood to reduce an activity which is why cigarettes etc are highly taxed. Not sure this is making the argument you think it is. In fact you are describing a system where the cartel disincentives this behavior, by making it less profitable. >Being robbed by the government is more palatable to tourists. Hard disagree with this one.
        SlickNixon 4y ago
        > What you are describing... by making it less profitable. Absolutely correct and totally irrelevant to the original point, which was that the administrative overhead for the cartel is vanishingly small. >Hard disagree It was palatable enough for you to travel to Mexico.
Teever 4y ago
Could you imagine a scenario where what is happening in the cartel controlled areas is putting pressure on the non cartel controlled areas and that pressure results in the police behaving the way that they are? In other words, do you think it's possible that the cartels are responsible for the shitty police behaviour in the rest of Mexico?
- notch898a 4y ago
  It's an interesting question. In US I find gang-active areas there is far less police hassling as they are focused on either severe crimes or just fucking off doing nothing. I've lived in several semi-dangerous cities and police do not enforce traffic laws (like at all) as they have bigger fish to fry. Your odds of getting shook down are practically zero. Whereas in bumfuck US you get pulled over all the time for practically nothing, "civil asset forfeiture" (aka shakedown) cuz a dog looked at you wrong etc. I will admit my basis for comparison is a bit different though as I don't worry at all going into even the most dangerous parts of US because here I can legally have a gun, in Mexico all I can do is run. I suspect based on my other Norte Americano experiences the police in Mexico would be even worse without the cartels, but I'm not sure.
  - Teever 4y ago
    Resources spent dealing with gang activity in one area are resources that can't be spent on dealing with police malfeasance in another area. We are all impoverished by corruption, even in areas outside of where we live.
    - notch898a 4y ago
      It's a nice thought that resources would be redirected to correcting malfeasance but in practice in most of the US it seems resources get redirected to pettier and pettier "crimes" when there is less serious crime.

philippejara 4y ago

It isn't the police that is making mexico one of the most violent places in the world, I'm sure they play a part in it as in all developing countries but said violence ends up being linked to the "violent warlords" anyway more often than not in the form of corrupt policemen working for them. Tourists tend to be treated with kiddy gloves by organized crime because of the response that diplomatic blunders trigger. Odds are as well that, if you as a tourist went out of your way to go to a warlord controlled area you were(or were seen as) their client.

dghlsakjg 4y ago
I was in a non-touristy part of mexico, and the only crime we had was when someone left their iPhone with their stuff at a park and the phone disappeared (I would expect the same almost anywhere in North America). Meanwhile the police shakedowns were incessant. We ended up paying over $100 USDd/day to police in straight up bribes for made up offenses.
- notch898a 4y ago
  100% this is my experience. I don't ever go to the tourist towns so maybe police are less hassling there.
- SlickNixon 4y ago
  Has it occurred to you that the police and cartels might not be operating as separate entities when it comes to shaking down tourists for cash?
  - notch898a 4y ago
    It's occurred to me, but this happens even in places where tourists basically aren't found and there is no well oiled machine for it even be worth the cartel's time to like keep watch for tourists and call the police to shake them down. That and the cartel can just straight up roll up with guns and take all your shit, why wouldn't they just do that if they wanted your money? Instead you find the cartels want nothing and the police want a bribe that would amount to very little for the cartels and not at all worth some arrangement picking up pennies with bumfuck police that almost never see a tourist.
    - SlickNixon 4y ago
      You're making a number of assumptions for what's required in this process beyond "shake down any tourists you like and give us a cut when you do (or we'll kill you)". >That and the cartel can just straight up roll up with guns and take all your shit, why wouldn't they just do that if they wanted your money? Being robbed by the government is more palatable to tourists. Would you travel to a place where ununiformed criminals shook you down for $100 a day?
      - notch898a 4y ago
        >"shake down any tourists you like and give us a cut when you do (or we'll kill you)". What you are describing is a tax. A tax is generally understood to reduce an activity which is why cigarettes etc are highly taxed. Not sure this is making the argument you think it is. In fact you are describing a system where the cartel disincentives this behavior, by making it less profitable. >Being robbed by the government is more palatable to tourists. Hard disagree with this one.
        SlickNixon 4y ago
        > What you are describing... by making it less profitable. Absolutely correct and totally irrelevant to the original point, which was that the administrative overhead for the cartel is vanishingly small. >Hard disagree It was palatable enough for you to travel to Mexico.

Teever 4y ago

Could you imagine a scenario where what is happening in the cartel controlled areas is putting pressure on the non cartel controlled areas and that pressure results in the police behaving the way that they are? In other words, do you think it's possible that the cartels are responsible for the shitty police behaviour in the rest of Mexico?

notch898a 4y ago
It's an interesting question. In US I find gang-active areas there is far less police hassling as they are focused on either severe crimes or just fucking off doing nothing. I've lived in several semi-dangerous cities and police do not enforce traffic laws (like at all) as they have bigger fish to fry. Your odds of getting shook down are practically zero. Whereas in bumfuck US you get pulled over all the time for practically nothing, "civil asset forfeiture" (aka shakedown) cuz a dog looked at you wrong etc. I will admit my basis for comparison is a bit different though as I don't worry at all going into even the most dangerous parts of US because here I can legally have a gun, in Mexico all I can do is run. I suspect based on my other Norte Americano experiences the police in Mexico would be even worse without the cartels, but I'm not sure.
- Teever 4y ago
  Resources spent dealing with gang activity in one area are resources that can't be spent on dealing with police malfeasance in another area. We are all impoverished by corruption, even in areas outside of where we live.
  - notch898a 4y ago
    It's a nice thought that resources would be redirected to correcting malfeasance but in practice in most of the US it seems resources get redirected to pettier and pettier "crimes" when there is less serious crime.