6 ms·

Obviously anyone will get the computer they want, well at least when you can. Sometimes you get stuck with a choice someone else made, like a company device. Ho

Obviously anyone will get the computer they want, well at least when you can. Sometimes you get stuck with a choice someone else made, like a company device. However, it is still useful to voice and especially to listen to criticism. Apple should be thankful that a lot of people are voicing their opinions. Getting this kind of feedback is priceless if they want to appeal to more people and grow their user base.

taylodl 4y ago
It's the same feedback Apple has been getting for 11 years now. There's nothing new here. I think Apple is well-aware that there are people who prefer an upgradeable laptop and not having to participate in the Apple ecosystem. I suspect Apple has data showing even more people prefer having a more reliable laptop (upgradeability tends to decrease reliability) and the perceived benefits of the Apple ecosystem - otherwise why would they have continued on this path for 11 years now whilst having very vocal critics of this approach the whole time?
- magic_hamster 4y ago
  > I suspect Apple has data showing even more people prefer having a more reliable laptop (upgradeability tends to decrease reliability) and the perceived benefits of the Apple ecosystem I wouldn't assume. Most Apple users I know conform with their devices one way or another (I used to be one of them myself). This could be just one more thing they can live without but would still rather have than not. Apple won't decide something based on criticism alone or even based on what people want. They decide based on what will net bigger profit. In this case, you can just as easily guess that Apple has data showing that while overpriced parts, hostile repair policy and lack of upgradability bother everyone, all of these contribute massively to the bottom line and are not enough to drive people away en masse. However, criticism is still important since it can help in some decisions where it can be the determining factor or the missing nudge towards one direction over the other.
- stinkytaco 4y ago
  I skeptical that non upgradability increases reliability. I have never heard this claim before. I have heard it decreases thickness and weight, both of which people might like, but increasing reliability? How much of that can just be attributed to improved components as manufacturing gets more sophisticated? I think this is just down to most people not caring. I like the idea of upgradability as an abstract concept, but didn't necessarily use the options when available.
  - taylodl 4y ago
    I used to work for an industrial automation company, building custom-designed computers (the entire system, including the motherboard) that control manufacturing lines. The units we used to design, being field upgradeable, were far less reliable than the units where the memory and CPU were soldered to the motherboard. That wasn't an option for mass storage at the time. Vibration and heat do amazing things to components that are removable. Also, components that are soldered on the mainboard, by not using a socket, generate less heat. The interconnect can also be faster. So yes, upgradeability does tend to decrease reliability. By the time I left that company they had switched to entirely non-upgradeable units because they were far more reliable.
  - jrmg 4y ago
    Every socket is another potential point of failure. When shipping millions of units it’ll be noticeable.
  - yamtaddle 4y ago
    Never had a memory stick get jarred a bit loose, eh? Sometimes it even keeps kinda behaving normally....
- ibz 4y ago
  I don't see posts like this as "feedback for Apple", but as encouragement for people to look into alternatives. Sure, lots of people do indeed prefer Apple's laptop-as-a-service model, but others do not. It is this latter group that posts like this targets. What you're saying here is more like - yes, everybody knows fast food is bad, so let's stop creating YouTube channels about cooking.
- notpublic 4y ago
  "IMPORTANT: BY USING YOUR MAC PRODUCT, YOU ARE AGREEING TO BE BOUND BY THE TERMS OF THE APPLE 1 YEAR LIMITED WARRANTY (“WARRANTY”) AS SET OUT BELOW...." If the product is that reliable, why not offer a 3-5 year warranty?
  - justinator 4y ago
    They do, it's called AppleCare and you would be nuts not to get it. Just factor it in for the price of the Macbook you want before budgeting and purchasing.
    - Nullabillity 4y ago
      If they actually believed in the product they wouldn't charge you extra for the warranty.
      - justinator 4y ago
        Hey I'm not the guy setting pricing and policy, I'm just trying to be a smart consumer that has found that getting AppleCare is worth the price many times over. If someone doesn't want to get AppleCare and save a few hundred dollars on their MacBook, fine by me too.
  - lostlogin 4y ago
    In New Zealand we have an excellent piece of legislation called The Consumer Guarantees Act. Things are supposed to last a reasonable amount of time. You’ll easily get 3 years warranty if you cite the law when you call Apple. It’s Sort of like free apple care.
  - kube-system 4y ago
    There are a lot of cost, marketing, and legal considerations that go into setting warranty durations. They're not intrinsically linked to the expected service lifetime of the product.

taylodl 4y ago

It's the same feedback Apple has been getting for 11 years now. There's nothing new here. I think Apple is well-aware that there are people who prefer an upgradeable laptop and not having to participate in the Apple ecosystem. I suspect Apple has data showing even more people prefer having a more reliable laptop (upgradeability tends to decrease reliability) and the perceived benefits of the Apple ecosystem - otherwise why would they have continued on this path for 11 years now whilst having very vocal critics of this approach the whole time?

magic_hamster 4y ago
> I suspect Apple has data showing even more people prefer having a more reliable laptop (upgradeability tends to decrease reliability) and the perceived benefits of the Apple ecosystem I wouldn't assume. Most Apple users I know conform with their devices one way or another (I used to be one of them myself). This could be just one more thing they can live without but would still rather have than not. Apple won't decide something based on criticism alone or even based on what people want. They decide based on what will net bigger profit. In this case, you can just as easily guess that Apple has data showing that while overpriced parts, hostile repair policy and lack of upgradability bother everyone, all of these contribute massively to the bottom line and are not enough to drive people away en masse. However, criticism is still important since it can help in some decisions where it can be the determining factor or the missing nudge towards one direction over the other.
stinkytaco 4y ago
I skeptical that non upgradability increases reliability. I have never heard this claim before. I have heard it decreases thickness and weight, both of which people might like, but increasing reliability? How much of that can just be attributed to improved components as manufacturing gets more sophisticated? I think this is just down to most people not caring. I like the idea of upgradability as an abstract concept, but didn't necessarily use the options when available.
- taylodl 4y ago
  I used to work for an industrial automation company, building custom-designed computers (the entire system, including the motherboard) that control manufacturing lines. The units we used to design, being field upgradeable, were far less reliable than the units where the memory and CPU were soldered to the motherboard. That wasn't an option for mass storage at the time. Vibration and heat do amazing things to components that are removable. Also, components that are soldered on the mainboard, by not using a socket, generate less heat. The interconnect can also be faster. So yes, upgradeability does tend to decrease reliability. By the time I left that company they had switched to entirely non-upgradeable units because they were far more reliable.
- jrmg 4y ago
  Every socket is another potential point of failure. When shipping millions of units it’ll be noticeable.
- yamtaddle 4y ago
  Never had a memory stick get jarred a bit loose, eh? Sometimes it even keeps kinda behaving normally....
ibz 4y ago
I don't see posts like this as "feedback for Apple", but as encouragement for people to look into alternatives. Sure, lots of people do indeed prefer Apple's laptop-as-a-service model, but others do not. It is this latter group that posts like this targets. What you're saying here is more like - yes, everybody knows fast food is bad, so let's stop creating YouTube channels about cooking.
notpublic 4y ago
"IMPORTANT: BY USING YOUR MAC PRODUCT, YOU ARE AGREEING TO BE BOUND BY THE TERMS OF THE APPLE 1 YEAR LIMITED WARRANTY (“WARRANTY”) AS SET OUT BELOW...." If the product is that reliable, why not offer a 3-5 year warranty?
- justinator 4y ago
  They do, it's called AppleCare and you would be nuts not to get it. Just factor it in for the price of the Macbook you want before budgeting and purchasing.
  - Nullabillity 4y ago
    If they actually believed in the product they wouldn't charge you extra for the warranty.
    - justinator 4y ago
      Hey I'm not the guy setting pricing and policy, I'm just trying to be a smart consumer that has found that getting AppleCare is worth the price many times over. If someone doesn't want to get AppleCare and save a few hundred dollars on their MacBook, fine by me too.
- lostlogin 4y ago
  In New Zealand we have an excellent piece of legislation called The Consumer Guarantees Act. Things are supposed to last a reasonable amount of time. You’ll easily get 3 years warranty if you cite the law when you call Apple. It’s Sort of like free apple care.
- kube-system 4y ago
  There are a lot of cost, marketing, and legal considerations that go into setting warranty durations. They're not intrinsically linked to the expected service lifetime of the product.