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I really don't get how America can be so advanced in so many things, but still use cheques. Why don't you have a bank transfer system? When I was in Texas last

I really don't get how America can be so advanced in so many things, but still use cheques. Why don't you have a bank transfer system? When I was in Texas last year, we went to a bank and they had these pneumatic tubes that suck in your cheques! Like a gas station. I felt like I had time travelled to some alternate reality. The last time I received a cheque from the U.S in germany, it was one of the most annoying payment methods I've ever used. First of all, there was this massive fee, then they froze the cash for 6 weeks while the check was verified. This was back in 2002 or so when I was pretty poor, and I had just done a contract job for a guy for a few thousand US$. So I had all this money on my account, but I could not withdraw it because of the freeze. It was like putting some roast turkey in a sealed glass box in the middle of a famine.

iigs 18y ago
When I was in Texas last year, we went to a bank and they had these pneumatic tubes that suck in your cheques! Like a gas station. I felt like I had time travelled to some alternate reality. I've lived in the US my whole life, and using those things feels like I've stepped into an alternate reality, as well. They really feel like something from a 1950s sci-fi space comic. I don't believe I've used one in five years, at least. The problems with checks are the same as the problems with credit cards -- the system is secure enough that the bank system is happier to buy down the losses/inefficiencies than to build an infrastructure secure and flexible enough to remove them. Since customers don't want to pay anything -- be it money or convenience -- to get additional security, the banks are on their own to improve things. I think Bruce Schneier had some articles on this a long time ago.
axod 18y ago
The other amazing thing is that you pay for cheques in the US, and you pay a 'convenience fee' for doing online transfers. I would hate living in a country where banking for individuals is not free. In the UK I don't think many shops will accept cheques any more... The US is great at marketing itself to "seem" advanced, but when you look at banking, or internet access, or mobile phones, or even land lines (They never work)... ;) It also amazes me how credit cards don't seem to have progressed in the US. Here in the UK/europe probably, we enjoy chip+pin security on cards, but afaik in the US it's still just a magnetic stripe easy to clone.
- wheels 18y ago
  - Banking is often free in the US, just like in Europe. Credit card usage is more prevalent in the US. All of the things that I typically do with bank transfers in Europe (with the odd exception of monthly rent which was a check and my salary which was a bank transfer) I did in the US with a credit card. - I've had more problems with my land-line in Germany than I ever did in the US. And I've heard enough stories about BT to believe that it's all peaches and cream on the island. - Those little chips in the European cards aren't used in most cases (at least the German ones), and in fact the most recent ones being issued here don't have them anymore. You certainly don't need anything but the magnetic strip for ATM or credit card transactions.
  - markessien 18y ago
    What about the fee that the credit card charges? And don't you have to them go to the offices to pay the rent then?
    - wheels 18y ago
      Credit card charges are much higher in Europe. Because of the ubiquity of credit cards in the US, it drives prices down; incidentally, that's why bank transfers are expensive in the US and cheap in Europe. I always either payed my rent in the US by mail or by putting a check in a drop-box that we had at the building where I lived. (Note that I haven't lived in the US since 2002, so things may have progressed since then.) <minirant> This is the problem with most US-Europe comparisons -- and honestly, something that Europeans are especially bad at. They tend to look at the US with a set of assumptions and bemoan that the US is backward without realizing that the some of the things being used as a basis for the comparison are out of whack. That's not to say that there aren't huge problems in the US, but they're rarely as simple as portrayed in the European media. </minirant>
      - markessien 18y ago
        I don't know man - it just seems wrong that I should be paying a fee to Mastercard or Visa everytime I pay my rent, no matter how small. Bank transfers in Europe are free, as they should be.
anamax 18y ago
> The last time I received a cheque from the U.S in germany, it was one of the most annoying payment methods I've ever used. First of all, there was this massive fee, then they froze the cash for 6 weeks while the check was verified. Umm, that's a problem with your "advanced" bank....
- randallsquared 18y ago
  Well, in a sense you're right... Checks usually "clear" in a day or two, but most banks have antiquated standards for how long they keep the funds on hold. My current bank keeps checks in my account uncleared for eight (8) business days (except for the first $100), and this policy means I never deposit checks -- instead I go to the bank it was drawn on and cash it. Bank tellers, whom you would think would be used to large stacks of cash, still seem to get flustered when you present a single-digit-thousands check and ask for cash. Dunno why. Anyway, the biggest problem with the checking system is that banks have six months to bounce a check, which means that checks you've forgotten about for months can suddenly make your bank balance go negative. Fun. The second biggest problem is that there's no real security in the system at all.., people jealously guard their debit card PINs, but will happily write a check which is effectively a license to take money, of any amount, out of the account it's drawn on. All someone has to do is use the routing and account numbers on the bottom of the check for electronic ACH. Basically, checks are a bad idea today, and you should probably avoid using them when possible.
helveticaman 18y ago
I had a similar experience using the mail in US. I couldn't wrap my head around the idea that one could send a letter with a handwritten address and have it arrive at the right place.
- LogicHoleFlaw 18y ago
  The US Postal Service has pretty sophisticated OCR software for classification and routing of mail. Its ultimate fallback though is an outsourced office with illegible writing being deciphered by human beings!
dmoney 18y ago
What do other countries use instead of checks?
- ilamont 18y ago
  In Taiwan 10 years ago, they had checks, but instead of signatures they used "chops" -- an ancient Chinese identity system based on small square stamps with the characters for your name carved in them. The ink is red. The system is thousands of years old, but was still used in an advanced Asian democracy for checks, receipts, and practically anywhere else you might use a signature (except for passports). I even had one (made out of metal, I still have it lying around somewhere) even though it was based on a Chinese name I made up in Mandarin class. I mostly used it for accepting registered mail and "signing" some official documents, but for other types of transactions they had foreigners use their real names and scrawled signatures. They're still used there, google chop stamp taiwan and you'll get a bunch of results. And yes, chops can be forged, and when I was there, there were many criminal cases involving forged or stolen chops.

iigs 18y ago

When I was in Texas last year, we went to a bank and they had these pneumatic tubes that suck in your cheques! Like a gas station. I felt like I had time travelled to some alternate reality. I've lived in the US my whole life, and using those things feels like I've stepped into an alternate reality, as well. They really feel like something from a 1950s sci-fi space comic. I don't believe I've used one in five years, at least. The problems with checks are the same as the problems with credit cards -- the system is secure enough that the bank system is happier to buy down the losses/inefficiencies than to build an infrastructure secure and flexible enough to remove them. Since customers don't want to pay anything -- be it money or convenience -- to get additional security, the banks are on their own to improve things. I think Bruce Schneier had some articles on this a long time ago.

axod 18y ago

The other amazing thing is that you pay for cheques in the US, and you pay a 'convenience fee' for doing online transfers. I would hate living in a country where banking for individuals is not free. In the UK I don't think many shops will accept cheques any more... The US is great at marketing itself to "seem" advanced, but when you look at banking, or internet access, or mobile phones, or even land lines (They never work)... ;) It also amazes me how credit cards don't seem to have progressed in the US. Here in the UK/europe probably, we enjoy chip+pin security on cards, but afaik in the US it's still just a magnetic stripe easy to clone.

wheels 18y ago
- Banking is often free in the US, just like in Europe. Credit card usage is more prevalent in the US. All of the things that I typically do with bank transfers in Europe (with the odd exception of monthly rent which was a check and my salary which was a bank transfer) I did in the US with a credit card. - I've had more problems with my land-line in Germany than I ever did in the US. And I've heard enough stories about BT to believe that it's all peaches and cream on the island. - Those little chips in the European cards aren't used in most cases (at least the German ones), and in fact the most recent ones being issued here don't have them anymore. You certainly don't need anything but the magnetic strip for ATM or credit card transactions.
- markessien 18y ago
  What about the fee that the credit card charges? And don't you have to them go to the offices to pay the rent then?
  - wheels 18y ago
    Credit card charges are much higher in Europe. Because of the ubiquity of credit cards in the US, it drives prices down; incidentally, that's why bank transfers are expensive in the US and cheap in Europe. I always either payed my rent in the US by mail or by putting a check in a drop-box that we had at the building where I lived. (Note that I haven't lived in the US since 2002, so things may have progressed since then.) <minirant> This is the problem with most US-Europe comparisons -- and honestly, something that Europeans are especially bad at. They tend to look at the US with a set of assumptions and bemoan that the US is backward without realizing that the some of the things being used as a basis for the comparison are out of whack. That's not to say that there aren't huge problems in the US, but they're rarely as simple as portrayed in the European media. </minirant>
    - markessien 18y ago
      I don't know man - it just seems wrong that I should be paying a fee to Mastercard or Visa everytime I pay my rent, no matter how small. Bank transfers in Europe are free, as they should be.

anamax 18y ago

> The last time I received a cheque from the U.S in germany, it was one of the most annoying payment methods I've ever used. First of all, there was this massive fee, then they froze the cash for 6 weeks while the check was verified. Umm, that's a problem with your "advanced" bank....

randallsquared 18y ago
Well, in a sense you're right... Checks usually "clear" in a day or two, but most banks have antiquated standards for how long they keep the funds on hold. My current bank keeps checks in my account uncleared for eight (8) business days (except for the first $100), and this policy means I never deposit checks -- instead I go to the bank it was drawn on and cash it. Bank tellers, whom you would think would be used to large stacks of cash, still seem to get flustered when you present a single-digit-thousands check and ask for cash. Dunno why. Anyway, the biggest problem with the checking system is that banks have six months to bounce a check, which means that checks you've forgotten about for months can suddenly make your bank balance go negative. Fun. The second biggest problem is that there's no real security in the system at all.., people jealously guard their debit card PINs, but will happily write a check which is effectively a license to take money, of any amount, out of the account it's drawn on. All someone has to do is use the routing and account numbers on the bottom of the check for electronic ACH. Basically, checks are a bad idea today, and you should probably avoid using them when possible.

helveticaman 18y ago

I had a similar experience using the mail in US. I couldn't wrap my head around the idea that one could send a letter with a handwritten address and have it arrive at the right place.

LogicHoleFlaw 18y ago
The US Postal Service has pretty sophisticated OCR software for classification and routing of mail. Its ultimate fallback though is an outsourced office with illegible writing being deciphered by human beings!

dmoney 18y ago

What do other countries use instead of checks?

ilamont 18y ago
In Taiwan 10 years ago, they had checks, but instead of signatures they used "chops" -- an ancient Chinese identity system based on small square stamps with the characters for your name carved in them. The ink is red. The system is thousands of years old, but was still used in an advanced Asian democracy for checks, receipts, and practically anywhere else you might use a signature (except for passports). I even had one (made out of metal, I still have it lying around somewhere) even though it was based on a Chinese name I made up in Mandarin class. I mostly used it for accepting registered mail and "signing" some official documents, but for other types of transactions they had foreigners use their real names and scrawled signatures. They're still used there, google chop stamp taiwan and you'll get a bunch of results. And yes, chops can be forged, and when I was there, there were many criminal cases involving forged or stolen chops.