3 ms·

The Scarlett letter approach is tempting as it seems effective on the surface. As a high school reader of Hawthorne, I was taught that the second order effects

The Scarlett letter approach is tempting as it seems effective on the surface. As a high school reader of Hawthorne, I was taught that the second order effects were worse than the benefit gained. That being said, I think that it’s hard to devise punishments that let the transgressor continue to function in society. You can’t put the blacksmith in jail or they can’t work. And finding people with limited means is extra cruel or ineffective. I wonder if some version of this schandmaske can apply to social media where you want to have some formal notice and punishment but don’t want to cut them off from their livelihood or connection to social relationships. Although I doubt that our society can agree on transgressions that would warrant the mask. Saying someone is ugly is a big deal to some people and less so to others.

ben_w 4y ago
> I wonder if some version of this schandmaske can apply to social media where you want to have some formal notice and punishment but don’t want to cut them off from their livelihood or connection to social relationships. > Although I doubt that our society can agree on transgressions that would warrant the mask. Saying someone is ugly is a big deal to some people and less so to others. We kinda do, but because the community is global, the standards against which you're measured for shame are so broad you can't avoid saying something that someone considers appalling (recent examples "vaccines are a good idea" and "I like the idea of my local shops being a 15 minute walk away"), and yet the opposite side of the same coin is that you're always going to be able to find people who think you're speaking truth to power, that you have no need to be ashamed, and that any attempt to criticise you is just "cancel culture". So, massive pile-ons no matter what — even when your action is to block someone so you don't have to deal with them any more.
- dsfyu404ed 4y ago
  >(recent examples "vaccines are a good idea" and "I like the idea of my local shops being a 15 minute walk away") Statistically nobody considers those things offensive on face value. It's the nuts and bolts of the implementations and adjacent more extreme positions they can sometimes be dog-whistling for that piss some people off. You're complicating things that don't need to be complicated by picking examples like that where something that is potentially offensive or not on its face value would have sufficed.
  - ben_w 4y ago
    > Statistically nobody considers those things offensive on face value. Even if this were the case (and politicians repeating them indicates otherwise) the absolute number is what actually matters for human interactions — over Dunbar's number and it "feels like" everyone's against you, and that's less than 200 people.
oh_sigh 4y ago
We have work release jail programs. You wake up in jail, are allowed to go do your job, and then as soon as you're done your job you go back to jail.

ben_w 4y ago

> I wonder if some version of this schandmaske can apply to social media where you want to have some formal notice and punishment but don’t want to cut them off from their livelihood or connection to social relationships. > Although I doubt that our society can agree on transgressions that would warrant the mask. Saying someone is ugly is a big deal to some people and less so to others. We kinda do, but because the community is global, the standards against which you're measured for shame are so broad you can't avoid saying something that someone considers appalling (recent examples "vaccines are a good idea" and "I like the idea of my local shops being a 15 minute walk away"), and yet the opposite side of the same coin is that you're always going to be able to find people who think you're speaking truth to power, that you have no need to be ashamed, and that any attempt to criticise you is just "cancel culture". So, massive pile-ons no matter what — even when your action is to block someone so you don't have to deal with them any more.

dsfyu404ed 4y ago
>(recent examples "vaccines are a good idea" and "I like the idea of my local shops being a 15 minute walk away") Statistically nobody considers those things offensive on face value. It's the nuts and bolts of the implementations and adjacent more extreme positions they can sometimes be dog-whistling for that piss some people off. You're complicating things that don't need to be complicated by picking examples like that where something that is potentially offensive or not on its face value would have sufficed.
- ben_w 4y ago
  > Statistically nobody considers those things offensive on face value. Even if this were the case (and politicians repeating them indicates otherwise) the absolute number is what actually matters for human interactions — over Dunbar's number and it "feels like" everyone's against you, and that's less than 200 people.

oh_sigh 4y ago

We have work release jail programs. You wake up in jail, are allowed to go do your job, and then as soon as you're done your job you go back to jail.