4 ms·

Can't wait to get killed by a car driven by somebody with 250ms of latency, 20% packet loss, who is underpaid and is forced to drive 3 cars at once. Driving al

by qlm 4y ago

Can't wait to get killed by a car driven by somebody with 250ms of latency, 20% packet loss, who is underpaid and is forced to drive 3 cars at once. Driving also varies a lot between countries. I can't imagine having to switch between left- and right-hand driving multiple times a day, let alone remotely. Nor can I imagine switching between the relatively calm (if somewhat pedestrian hostile) style of driving in the UK, to the structured chaos of driving somewhere like India.

calpaterson 4y ago
> relatively calm (if somewhat pedestrian hostile) style of driving in the UK The UK is pedestrian hostile? In comparison to where? It's always seemed to me one of the most pro-pedestrian countries, eg there is no such thing as "jaywalking": you can cross anywhere and cars are obliged to stop once you're "established in the road" - plus they are obliged to stop at all times on zebras.
- keiferski 4y ago
  I think I only saw one or two zebra crossings in London, Oxford, and Cambridge. The vast majority of crossings are only marked on the ground with a ridged plate. I would agree with the grandparent poster that the UK is pedestrian hostile. The sidewalks are too narrow and the roads too wide. Having double decker buses drive by (only feet away) is an unpleasant experience.
- alibarber 4y ago
  I was surprised coming to Finland from the UK. It seems much more pedestrian hostile here (in Finland) in my opinion. It seems pretty rare for people to stop at a zebra crossing here unless you're actually already in front of them (in Finland). Also in the UK traffic lights 'protect' the crossing - i.e. you will never get a green light to turn across a crossing that has a 'green man'. This means here that drivers want to get closer to the pedestrians that are crossing and 'squeeze through' as soon as they can, to avoid holding up people behind during their 'turn' of the green light. Edited to clarify that I think it is more pedestrian hostile in Finland than the UK.
  - calpaterson 4y ago
    Having been to Finland I feel the reverse: it's much more hostile. It is not great that (as you implicitly described) they put zebras next to road turns and as you're crossing the road cars will occasionally turn right across you. Pedestrians are clearly also a lot more afraid of cars in Finland - as evidenced by their famous waiting at crossings for the green man even when there are no cars. Finland is a very different country than the UK - much worse weather in winter but much much sparser - but looking at the stats it seems to do a little worse on road casualties than the UK on most measures. eg 3.8 road deaths per 100k pop in Finland vs 2.9 in the UK and 5.1 road deaths per billion km in Finland vs 3.8 in the UK. I don't think Finland's road safety is as good as the UK though it is still one of the better countries.
  - hanoz 4y ago
    It varies a lot throughout the UK. There plenty of places where cars are guaranteed to stop if you so much as look at a zebra crossing, and they will wait, as they are obliged to, until you're full off the other end too, not zoom on through as soon as their lane is clear.
- implements 4y ago
  Even less pedestrian hostile now that cars have to give way to pedestrians simply waiting to cross a road at a junction: https://www.gov.uk/guidance/the-highway-code/introduction#ruleh2 https://www.gov.uk/guidance/the-highway-code/introduction#ru... Prioritising the safety of vulnerable Highway users is obviously good, but potentially forcing cars to come to a full stop on a 40 mph road seems like it’s going to cause a fair few high-speed rear end collisions.
  - notahacker 4y ago
    tbh if someone slows down and signals for a turn and then belatedly comes to a full stop when it spots pedestrians, and the car behind it is unable to avoid a high speed rear end collision, there's something seriously wrong with the driver of that car. Nothing new about the possibility a junction might be blocked.
  - Y_Y 4y ago
    If you might have to stop suddenly at a junction then it's unsafe to drive so fast that that would be dangerous, regardless of what any speed limit sign says.
  - slifin 4y ago
    Why are cars allowed to drive 40mph in an area for pedestrians? As a pedestrian in the UK it seems like the rules around yielding mean very little in practise
  - ccouzens 4y ago
    This highway code change hasn't done much in practice. Not many car drivers give way to pedestrians on junctions. But hopefully habits will change.
    - Philip-J-Fry 4y ago
      The reason is because while it's a great rule to introduce in theory, the reality is much harder after decades of previous rules. For the rule to work, every driver and pedestrian has to be on the same page. And this is behaviour that is ingrained in people since they began crossing roads or driving. If the pedestrian understands the rule and the driver doesn't, then you've got an accident waiting to happen. The pedestrian could expect a driver to stop and cause an accident. If the driver understands the rule change and the pedestrian doesn't, then you've got a confused and cautious pedestrian wondering what's going on. Not to mention that in most junctions the pedestrian can't easily see any gestures by the driver to usher them across the road. It can also cause a pedestrian to forget to look the other way. Plus, most drivers don't even know about the rule change, even today many months after it's introduction. So as a pedestrian, it's much easier to assume every driver is oblivious and rely on your own judgement as to when it is safe to cross. And that means letting cars turn into junctions before crossing. Which, in turn, reinforces the undesired behaviour. This is why I think in reality nothing will change. It's just too unsafe to assume drivers know the new rules of the road when they barely understand ones that have existed for decades.
- notahacker 4y ago
  Depends what you consider to be "pedestrian hostile", I guess. There are some countries where the custom is for a pedestrian to see five lanes of traffic and just slowly walk across the road, with the expectation that other drivers will anticipate this behaviour and stop or steer around them. Then again, those countries kill a lot more pedestrians...
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- Philip-J-Fry 4y ago
  The UK has a lot of pedestrian rights. But drivers are hostile against pedestrians and cyclists getting "in their way". People speed like maniacs in residential areas too. The road outside my house is 30mph, but every time I walk down it I catch a few people clearly going at least 40, probably 50mph.
  - ClumsyPilot 4y ago
    > drivers are hostile against pedestrians and cyclists getting "in their way" In the past year two drivers purposefully drove up to my bike, matched speed, and made it clear they do not like cyclists. One was civil, but the other wad swerving the car dangerously and shouting obceneties. Unfortunelty I don't have a dashcam or anything to record the number plate and report the latter one.
ClumsyPilot 4y ago
> who is underpaid and is forced to drive 3 cars at once Nono, you will pay to drive, it will be a $100 DLC to the European Truck Simulator (or whatever its called)
mangamadaiyan 4y ago
Minor correction - it's just chaos. There's absolutely no need to qualify it with the illusion of structure :)

by qlm 4y ago

calpaterson 4y ago

> relatively calm (if somewhat pedestrian hostile) style of driving in the UK The UK is pedestrian hostile? In comparison to where? It's always seemed to me one of the most pro-pedestrian countries, eg there is no such thing as "jaywalking": you can cross anywhere and cars are obliged to stop once you're "established in the road" - plus they are obliged to stop at all times on zebras.

keiferski 4y ago
I think I only saw one or two zebra crossings in London, Oxford, and Cambridge. The vast majority of crossings are only marked on the ground with a ridged plate. I would agree with the grandparent poster that the UK is pedestrian hostile. The sidewalks are too narrow and the roads too wide. Having double decker buses drive by (only feet away) is an unpleasant experience.
alibarber 4y ago
I was surprised coming to Finland from the UK. It seems much more pedestrian hostile here (in Finland) in my opinion. It seems pretty rare for people to stop at a zebra crossing here unless you're actually already in front of them (in Finland). Also in the UK traffic lights 'protect' the crossing - i.e. you will never get a green light to turn across a crossing that has a 'green man'. This means here that drivers want to get closer to the pedestrians that are crossing and 'squeeze through' as soon as they can, to avoid holding up people behind during their 'turn' of the green light. Edited to clarify that I think it is more pedestrian hostile in Finland than the UK.
- calpaterson 4y ago
  Having been to Finland I feel the reverse: it's much more hostile. It is not great that (as you implicitly described) they put zebras next to road turns and as you're crossing the road cars will occasionally turn right across you. Pedestrians are clearly also a lot more afraid of cars in Finland - as evidenced by their famous waiting at crossings for the green man even when there are no cars. Finland is a very different country than the UK - much worse weather in winter but much much sparser - but looking at the stats it seems to do a little worse on road casualties than the UK on most measures. eg 3.8 road deaths per 100k pop in Finland vs 2.9 in the UK and 5.1 road deaths per billion km in Finland vs 3.8 in the UK. I don't think Finland's road safety is as good as the UK though it is still one of the better countries.
- hanoz 4y ago
  It varies a lot throughout the UK. There plenty of places where cars are guaranteed to stop if you so much as look at a zebra crossing, and they will wait, as they are obliged to, until you're full off the other end too, not zoom on through as soon as their lane is clear.
implements 4y ago
Even less pedestrian hostile now that cars have to give way to pedestrians simply waiting to cross a road at a junction: https://www.gov.uk/guidance/the-highway-code/introduction#ruleh2 https://www.gov.uk/guidance/the-highway-code/introduction#ru... Prioritising the safety of vulnerable Highway users is obviously good, but potentially forcing cars to come to a full stop on a 40 mph road seems like it’s going to cause a fair few high-speed rear end collisions.
- notahacker 4y ago
  tbh if someone slows down and signals for a turn and then belatedly comes to a full stop when it spots pedestrians, and the car behind it is unable to avoid a high speed rear end collision, there's something seriously wrong with the driver of that car. Nothing new about the possibility a junction might be blocked.
- Y_Y 4y ago
  If you might have to stop suddenly at a junction then it's unsafe to drive so fast that that would be dangerous, regardless of what any speed limit sign says.
- slifin 4y ago
  Why are cars allowed to drive 40mph in an area for pedestrians? As a pedestrian in the UK it seems like the rules around yielding mean very little in practise
- ccouzens 4y ago
  This highway code change hasn't done much in practice. Not many car drivers give way to pedestrians on junctions. But hopefully habits will change.
  - Philip-J-Fry 4y ago
    The reason is because while it's a great rule to introduce in theory, the reality is much harder after decades of previous rules. For the rule to work, every driver and pedestrian has to be on the same page. And this is behaviour that is ingrained in people since they began crossing roads or driving. If the pedestrian understands the rule and the driver doesn't, then you've got an accident waiting to happen. The pedestrian could expect a driver to stop and cause an accident. If the driver understands the rule change and the pedestrian doesn't, then you've got a confused and cautious pedestrian wondering what's going on. Not to mention that in most junctions the pedestrian can't easily see any gestures by the driver to usher them across the road. It can also cause a pedestrian to forget to look the other way. Plus, most drivers don't even know about the rule change, even today many months after it's introduction. So as a pedestrian, it's much easier to assume every driver is oblivious and rely on your own judgement as to when it is safe to cross. And that means letting cars turn into junctions before crossing. Which, in turn, reinforces the undesired behaviour. This is why I think in reality nothing will change. It's just too unsafe to assume drivers know the new rules of the road when they barely understand ones that have existed for decades.
notahacker 4y ago
Depends what you consider to be "pedestrian hostile", I guess. There are some countries where the custom is for a pedestrian to see five lanes of traffic and just slowly walk across the road, with the expectation that other drivers will anticipate this behaviour and stop or steer around them. Then again, those countries kill a lot more pedestrians...
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
Philip-J-Fry 4y ago
The UK has a lot of pedestrian rights. But drivers are hostile against pedestrians and cyclists getting "in their way". People speed like maniacs in residential areas too. The road outside my house is 30mph, but every time I walk down it I catch a few people clearly going at least 40, probably 50mph.
- ClumsyPilot 4y ago
  > drivers are hostile against pedestrians and cyclists getting "in their way" In the past year two drivers purposefully drove up to my bike, matched speed, and made it clear they do not like cyclists. One was civil, but the other wad swerving the car dangerously and shouting obceneties. Unfortunelty I don't have a dashcam or anything to record the number plate and report the latter one.

ClumsyPilot 4y ago

> who is underpaid and is forced to drive 3 cars at once Nono, you will pay to drive, it will be a $100 DLC to the European Truck Simulator (or whatever its called)

mangamadaiyan 4y ago

Minor correction - it's just chaos. There's absolutely no need to qualify it with the illusion of structure :)