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Using still an ThinkPad X220 here with Archlinux. There two important things in any laptop, the built-in keyboard and the built-in screen. This is the I/O-Inter

Using still an ThinkPad X220 here with Archlinux. There two important things in any laptop, the built-in keyboard and the built-in screen. This is the I/O-Interface! Customers often do the mistake and doesn't invest in the best available screen. You cannot make this mistake with Apple, because they offer no options for the screen. Regarding keyboards, selecting a ThinkPad is always safe. I had to buy the X220 from a shop, not directly from Lenovo: * TN-Panel -> IPS-Panel * ISO-Keyboard -> ANSI-Keyboard * Bluetooth 3.0 -> Bluetooth 4.0 LE All with original replacement parts. I bought it because I wanted to remain the the seven row keyboard, which provides better layout/grouping. The X220 will reach it 10th year in next winter. The keyboard provides excellent tactile feedback and concave keys. Bonus, TrackPoint. The TrackPad is superfluous for me. The frame is made of polycarbonate (feels nice on skin contact) and reinforced with magnesium. Apples keyboard doesn't provide a good feedback on press and the keys have no shape guiding the fingers. They make superiors chips through TSMC, especially the M1/M2 without any PRO/MAX which allows passive cooling. But I don't want use MacOS. And while aluminium is a nice material for cars, bikes and planes it doesn't feel good with skin contact. We don't use keyboards or mice with aluminium because it doesn't feel well. I know, the aluminium frame makes it shiny and sturdy and allows to glue in stuff (cheap) but I don't like that. I even don't like it with my smartphone. PS: Battery replacement is a bless. Yes, built-in batteries allow for more sturdy frames but it is bad in long term. It would be enough the provide replacement batteries with a low-weight cage and screws instead of glue.

arcticbull 4y ago
> PS: Battery replacement is a bless. Yes, built-in batteries allow for more sturdy frames but it is bad in long term. It would be enough the provide replacement batteries with a low-weight cage and screws instead of glue. I agree with this. That said, an all-in battery replacement by Apple is $199. Once every 3 years isn't going to break the bank vs. like $50 for an X220 battery. Especially when an X220 gets like 7h of juice vs 17-22h for an M1/2 MacBook Pro.
- ho_schi 4y ago
  Yep. We should mention here improvements within the last decade? The X13 Gen3 (AMD) also should allow run theoretically 17 hours[1]. I think a peak was reached with the MacBook (Polycarbonate Body) or T430s which allowed to replace the battery at the device bottom with a coin, easy maintenance and sturdy frame. And good balance because the weight counteracted the open display. With "peak" I mean the situation that a thing reached a point where it was actually good and then get impaired. Sometimes because another feature was added but didn't fit. Or just for the sake of change. The seven vs. six row keyboard layout is such a thing. The 16:9 screens where everyone immediately wanted the 16:10 back (happening right now). The MiniSD-Slots replacing the SD-Slots... [1] https://psref.lenovo.com/syspool/Sys/PDF/ThinkPad/ThinkPad_X13_Gen_3_AMD/ThinkPad_X13_Gen_3_AMD_Spec.pdf https://psref.lenovo.com/syspool/Sys/PDF/ThinkPad/ThinkPad_X...
  - eptcyka 4y ago
    How does one achieve 17 hours of battery life with an X13 Gen3 AMD? I can manage maybe 6.
    - sudosysgen 4y ago
      Do you have a discrete GPU? Disable it. Run TLP and powertop to see what uses too much power and to adjust tweakables.
      - eptcyka 4y ago
        I do not have a discrete GPU, have run TLP and Powertop and have adjusted the tweakables. Maybe it's my 1440p display.
        sudosysgen 4y ago
        If you use zenmonitor, what is the package power on a typical workload? It should be 2-3W maximum normally. If it's too high, it's a too common case of manufacturers setting insane tweakables, and can be remediated using amdctl/ryzenadj/zenstates (or in some BIOSes using the PBO2 setting). Otherwise, it can sometimes be a bad SSD using a lot of power.
deeesstoronto 4y ago
Also still using a X220 (X230 motherboard swapped) with Debian and a T430s (with 1080p swap) with Windows. Agreed that the X220 form and function is excellent. The 7-row keyboard is amazing. The IPS screen is serviceable. The swappable 9-cell batteries give around 10 hours of battery life each. The i7-3520M is noticeably faster than the i5-8250U in my surface pro 6, even though benchmarks suggest it shouldn't be. Just tried a new T14. The keyboard is decent. I haven't found any laptops with a keyboard as good as the 7-row.
- pengaru 4y ago
  > Also still using a X220 (X230 motherboard swapped) Is there any advantage to swapping the X230 motherboard into an X220 chassis vs. putting the X220 keyboard on an X230? I upgraded to an X230 from an X220 for Vulkan support, but have swapping in the X220 keyboard on my todo list. Curious if there's a good reason to go the other way.
- jacobgorm 4y ago
  I have a T14g2, and while the keyboard is indeed reasonable, it is a far cry from keyboards TPS used to have, and the front chassis wedge is so sharp it gave me long lasting and very painful CTS-like symptoms after a single long day of coding on a train (I’ve since fixed that issue by padding the corners with Sugru). The camera is also extremely poor, both in terms of image resolution and light sensitivity.
bigpeopleareold 4y ago
I wanted to like the x220s I found and then upgraded (well only the best one). I think the keyboard is great. I stuck an IPS screen into it (no nitrocaster). The good one ended up having the power port die on me and while struggling to pull the thing a part to get to it (of course it is possible, but it's tested my patience :) ) the top case basically crumbled apart. I swapped the good parts to the other one, but it sits idle now. I just don't feel like I can be productive with a small 768 screen. I can't avoid the fact 1080 is my minimum. I think my T430s is really good (with 1080 adapter and the keyboard is fantastic), but it can end up having the same issues with the top case with small cracks in the top case. The TP I was able to keep from my last job has none of the problems. It is a T470p. Maybe there was some effort into material quality over the years, but it survived a really hard fall with some minor damage on the top and bottom case. It also is much easier to service :) It's the 470 that's the better overall one I have had, with the 430 being the one with the better keyboard.
Reason077 4y ago
> “And while aluminium is a nice material for cars, bikes and planes it doesn't feel good with skin contact. We don't use keyboards or mice with aluminium because it doesn't feel well.” Apple does make (desktop) keyboards and trackpads with aluminium. Not to mention phones, remote controls, and the Apple Watch. No complaints here!

arcticbull 4y ago

> PS: Battery replacement is a bless. Yes, built-in batteries allow for more sturdy frames but it is bad in long term. It would be enough the provide replacement batteries with a low-weight cage and screws instead of glue. I agree with this. That said, an all-in battery replacement by Apple is $199. Once every 3 years isn't going to break the bank vs. like $50 for an X220 battery. Especially when an X220 gets like 7h of juice vs 17-22h for an M1/2 MacBook Pro.

ho_schi 4y ago
Yep. We should mention here improvements within the last decade? The X13 Gen3 (AMD) also should allow run theoretically 17 hours[1]. I think a peak was reached with the MacBook (Polycarbonate Body) or T430s which allowed to replace the battery at the device bottom with a coin, easy maintenance and sturdy frame. And good balance because the weight counteracted the open display. With "peak" I mean the situation that a thing reached a point where it was actually good and then get impaired. Sometimes because another feature was added but didn't fit. Or just for the sake of change. The seven vs. six row keyboard layout is such a thing. The 16:9 screens where everyone immediately wanted the 16:10 back (happening right now). The MiniSD-Slots replacing the SD-Slots... [1] https://psref.lenovo.com/syspool/Sys/PDF/ThinkPad/ThinkPad_X13_Gen_3_AMD/ThinkPad_X13_Gen_3_AMD_Spec.pdf https://psref.lenovo.com/syspool/Sys/PDF/ThinkPad/ThinkPad_X...
- eptcyka 4y ago
  How does one achieve 17 hours of battery life with an X13 Gen3 AMD? I can manage maybe 6.
  - sudosysgen 4y ago
    Do you have a discrete GPU? Disable it. Run TLP and powertop to see what uses too much power and to adjust tweakables.
    - eptcyka 4y ago
      I do not have a discrete GPU, have run TLP and Powertop and have adjusted the tweakables. Maybe it's my 1440p display.
      - sudosysgen 4y ago
        If you use zenmonitor, what is the package power on a typical workload? It should be 2-3W maximum normally. If it's too high, it's a too common case of manufacturers setting insane tweakables, and can be remediated using amdctl/ryzenadj/zenstates (or in some BIOSes using the PBO2 setting). Otherwise, it can sometimes be a bad SSD using a lot of power.

deeesstoronto 4y ago

Also still using a X220 (X230 motherboard swapped) with Debian and a T430s (with 1080p swap) with Windows. Agreed that the X220 form and function is excellent. The 7-row keyboard is amazing. The IPS screen is serviceable. The swappable 9-cell batteries give around 10 hours of battery life each. The i7-3520M is noticeably faster than the i5-8250U in my surface pro 6, even though benchmarks suggest it shouldn't be. Just tried a new T14. The keyboard is decent. I haven't found any laptops with a keyboard as good as the 7-row.

pengaru 4y ago
> Also still using a X220 (X230 motherboard swapped) Is there any advantage to swapping the X230 motherboard into an X220 chassis vs. putting the X220 keyboard on an X230? I upgraded to an X230 from an X220 for Vulkan support, but have swapping in the X220 keyboard on my todo list. Curious if there's a good reason to go the other way.
jacobgorm 4y ago
I have a T14g2, and while the keyboard is indeed reasonable, it is a far cry from keyboards TPS used to have, and the front chassis wedge is so sharp it gave me long lasting and very painful CTS-like symptoms after a single long day of coding on a train (I’ve since fixed that issue by padding the corners with Sugru). The camera is also extremely poor, both in terms of image resolution and light sensitivity.

bigpeopleareold 4y ago

I wanted to like the x220s I found and then upgraded (well only the best one). I think the keyboard is great. I stuck an IPS screen into it (no nitrocaster). The good one ended up having the power port die on me and while struggling to pull the thing a part to get to it (of course it is possible, but it's tested my patience :) ) the top case basically crumbled apart. I swapped the good parts to the other one, but it sits idle now. I just don't feel like I can be productive with a small 768 screen. I can't avoid the fact 1080 is my minimum. I think my T430s is really good (with 1080 adapter and the keyboard is fantastic), but it can end up having the same issues with the top case with small cracks in the top case. The TP I was able to keep from my last job has none of the problems. It is a T470p. Maybe there was some effort into material quality over the years, but it survived a really hard fall with some minor damage on the top and bottom case. It also is much easier to service :) It's the 470 that's the better overall one I have had, with the 430 being the one with the better keyboard.

Reason077 4y ago

> “And while aluminium is a nice material for cars, bikes and planes it doesn't feel good with skin contact. We don't use keyboards or mice with aluminium because it doesn't feel well.” Apple does make (desktop) keyboards and trackpads with aluminium. Not to mention phones, remote controls, and the Apple Watch. No complaints here!