4 ms·

The biggest contrast here and what we should be concerned about is the fact that this old Thinkpad can be upgraded and still be used vs an old macbook that if s

The biggest contrast here and what we should be concerned about is the fact that this old Thinkpad can be upgraded and still be used vs an old macbook that if speced too low is now useless and ends up on a landfill. Not even considering that new macbooks if locked are unusable on the secondary market and get tossed even if the hardware is perfectly fine. It's as if we have given up on "solving" climate change in favor of short term profits...

nicbou 4y ago
In practice old MacBooks tend to have a much longer useful life in my experience. I'm working on a 12" Macbook and I love it. It's still decently fast for.the lowest specced Macbook from 6 years ago. It supplements a 2017 Macbook Pro that's still overkill in 2022. Both have excellent battery life. If it wasn't for the nearly free upgrade I got in 2017, I'd probably still rock a 2012 model.
- LtWorf 4y ago
  In practice my old macbook fell apart after 4 years and I've since stopped buying them. Now I also don't need dongles, nor a dedicated charger.
- kdtsh 4y ago
  I've got a 2012 MacBook Air which I bought second hand (maybe third or fourth hand, or more?) for $300 a couple years ago. The hinge is floppy probably due to being dropped several times, the FaceTime is busted, I replaced the battery but it still runs out in less than 2 hours, and I don't think macOS even gets security patches for the version it's running - but install Linux and it's _fine_, plus it's tiny. I could probably run it as a rudimentary media server if I didn't already have one, or palm it off to a young kid who doesn't care that it's a bit banged up, or use it as a machine of last resort. I don't use it like I use my M2 MacBook Air and would never suggest someone daily drive it unless they had no other choice, but I can't justify throwing it away because it's completely solid and still works. I could also probably get $100-150 out of it if I really wanted to sell it - if anyone can tell me of another 10 year old laptop with resell value like that I'd like to know. I don't think I've owned a non-Apple laptop for more than 3 years, with the exception of a particularly long-lived Lenovo laptop I got in 2013. Every other one has had critical hardware die that I didn't feel inclined to replace mainly due to costs outweighing benefits. Except for a few weird years in the late 2010s, Apple makes stunningly reliable and long-lasting hardware in my experience.
  - Gigachad 4y ago
    You can fix the hinge with a screwdriver. It’s a bit of a pain but not a terribly hard fix.
  - LtWorf 4y ago
    Basically it's unusable but it still turns on? Is this what apple users consider as "durability"?
    - kdtsh 4y ago
      I replaced the battery with a non-OEM so the battery situation isn’t unexpected. It’s very usable, it’s just banged up. I was even running Ableton Live on it before I got a new MacBook. How many other 10 year old laptops treated with the same care as a school textbook still work?
    - seszett 4y ago
      To add a counterpoint, my Macbook Air from 2011 (model A1370 IIRC) running Linux is totally usable and I do use it as a daily driver (well, not daily but I use it on the days when I need a small laptop, which is several days a week). I suppose macOS cannot be upgraded on it anymore but I never liked macOS and never really used it. I replaced its battery three times now, and the fracking awful magsafe 1 cable countless times, but other than that everything works, including the camera, and I took enough care of it that it's basically as good as new. The hinge is a bit weak indeed, but it's only noticeable when I'd like to almost close it without totally closing it. I think it's acceptable for a 12 year old computer. It runs about four hours under Linux on a 4680 mAh battery.
- alexvoda 4y ago
  Old MacBooks used to be more upgradable. I did upgrade my old MacBook and did prolong it's life. Current MacBooks have 0 upgradability. Once the specs are too low, that's that. Also, current MacBooks used in corporate environments do not reach the second hand market because the SSD is no longer an independent component. They get shredded. Perfectly good barely old computers get shredded because one component is no longer separate.
- ShrimpHawk 4y ago
  I agree; used a 2015 Macbook Pro until last year when I purchased the M1. 7 years of life for a laptop is exceptional and I expect to get similar out of my current one. You'd be hard pressed to find laptops with that level of longevity.
- matthiaswh 4y ago
  The T480 they just got is already 5 years old. Maybe other manufacturers don't have long lifespans, I can't say, but Lenovos tend to hang around forever and are easy to sell when you want to upgrade. See all the people commenting here about their 12 year old x220. I still use an 8 year old x250.
nextlevelwizard 4y ago
>It's as if we have given up on "solving" climate change in favor of short term profits... That is such non sequitur. Old hardware gets old that is nothing new. All of us _could_ do our work with laptops from early 2000s, but we don't because we want the benefit of 20 years of hardware improvement. Why is upgrading an old laptop any better than buying a new one? The parts had to be produced anyway and unless you are upgrading frequently your old laptop will still be noticeably behind in performance. Sure on some metrics they are fine, browsing hackernews and sending emails is solved and can be done with pretty much every computer. >Not even considering that new macbooks if locked are unusable on the secondary market I also don't get what you mean by this. At least my macbooks aren't "locked" in anyway. I can reset them and resell as I see fit.
dnh44 4y ago
>Not even considering that new macbooks if locked are unusable on the secondary market and get tossed even if the hardware is perfectly fine. It's as if we have given up on "solving" climate change in favor of short term profits... Making this argument without acknowledging the impact it has on the market for stolen Apple goods makes it an intellectually dishonest one I think.
yokoprime 4y ago
Please recycle your old computers, don't throw them in landfills.

nicbou 4y ago

In practice old MacBooks tend to have a much longer useful life in my experience. I'm working on a 12" Macbook and I love it. It's still decently fast for.the lowest specced Macbook from 6 years ago. It supplements a 2017 Macbook Pro that's still overkill in 2022. Both have excellent battery life. If it wasn't for the nearly free upgrade I got in 2017, I'd probably still rock a 2012 model.

LtWorf 4y ago
In practice my old macbook fell apart after 4 years and I've since stopped buying them. Now I also don't need dongles, nor a dedicated charger.
kdtsh 4y ago
I've got a 2012 MacBook Air which I bought second hand (maybe third or fourth hand, or more?) for $300 a couple years ago. The hinge is floppy probably due to being dropped several times, the FaceTime is busted, I replaced the battery but it still runs out in less than 2 hours, and I don't think macOS even gets security patches for the version it's running - but install Linux and it's _fine_, plus it's tiny. I could probably run it as a rudimentary media server if I didn't already have one, or palm it off to a young kid who doesn't care that it's a bit banged up, or use it as a machine of last resort. I don't use it like I use my M2 MacBook Air and would never suggest someone daily drive it unless they had no other choice, but I can't justify throwing it away because it's completely solid and still works. I could also probably get $100-150 out of it if I really wanted to sell it - if anyone can tell me of another 10 year old laptop with resell value like that I'd like to know. I don't think I've owned a non-Apple laptop for more than 3 years, with the exception of a particularly long-lived Lenovo laptop I got in 2013. Every other one has had critical hardware die that I didn't feel inclined to replace mainly due to costs outweighing benefits. Except for a few weird years in the late 2010s, Apple makes stunningly reliable and long-lasting hardware in my experience.
- Gigachad 4y ago
  You can fix the hinge with a screwdriver. It’s a bit of a pain but not a terribly hard fix.
- LtWorf 4y ago
  Basically it's unusable but it still turns on? Is this what apple users consider as "durability"?
  - kdtsh 4y ago
    I replaced the battery with a non-OEM so the battery situation isn’t unexpected. It’s very usable, it’s just banged up. I was even running Ableton Live on it before I got a new MacBook. How many other 10 year old laptops treated with the same care as a school textbook still work?
  - seszett 4y ago
    To add a counterpoint, my Macbook Air from 2011 (model A1370 IIRC) running Linux is totally usable and I do use it as a daily driver (well, not daily but I use it on the days when I need a small laptop, which is several days a week). I suppose macOS cannot be upgraded on it anymore but I never liked macOS and never really used it. I replaced its battery three times now, and the fracking awful magsafe 1 cable countless times, but other than that everything works, including the camera, and I took enough care of it that it's basically as good as new. The hinge is a bit weak indeed, but it's only noticeable when I'd like to almost close it without totally closing it. I think it's acceptable for a 12 year old computer. It runs about four hours under Linux on a 4680 mAh battery.
alexvoda 4y ago
Old MacBooks used to be more upgradable. I did upgrade my old MacBook and did prolong it's life. Current MacBooks have 0 upgradability. Once the specs are too low, that's that. Also, current MacBooks used in corporate environments do not reach the second hand market because the SSD is no longer an independent component. They get shredded. Perfectly good barely old computers get shredded because one component is no longer separate.
ShrimpHawk 4y ago
I agree; used a 2015 Macbook Pro until last year when I purchased the M1. 7 years of life for a laptop is exceptional and I expect to get similar out of my current one. You'd be hard pressed to find laptops with that level of longevity.
matthiaswh 4y ago
The T480 they just got is already 5 years old. Maybe other manufacturers don't have long lifespans, I can't say, but Lenovos tend to hang around forever and are easy to sell when you want to upgrade. See all the people commenting here about their 12 year old x220. I still use an 8 year old x250.

nextlevelwizard 4y ago

>It's as if we have given up on "solving" climate change in favor of short term profits... That is such non sequitur. Old hardware gets old that is nothing new. All of us _could_ do our work with laptops from early 2000s, but we don't because we want the benefit of 20 years of hardware improvement. Why is upgrading an old laptop any better than buying a new one? The parts had to be produced anyway and unless you are upgrading frequently your old laptop will still be noticeably behind in performance. Sure on some metrics they are fine, browsing hackernews and sending emails is solved and can be done with pretty much every computer. >Not even considering that new macbooks if locked are unusable on the secondary market I also don't get what you mean by this. At least my macbooks aren't "locked" in anyway. I can reset them and resell as I see fit.

dnh44 4y ago

>Not even considering that new macbooks if locked are unusable on the secondary market and get tossed even if the hardware is perfectly fine. It's as if we have given up on "solving" climate change in favor of short term profits... Making this argument without acknowledging the impact it has on the market for stolen Apple goods makes it an intellectually dishonest one I think.

yokoprime 4y ago

Please recycle your old computers, don't throw them in landfills.