3 ms·

I'm still not really seeing how the 4-day-week, at 5 days pay, is delivering the (almost magical) 20%+ productivity boost that its proponents seem to claim it d

I'm still not really seeing how the 4-day-week, at 5 days pay, is delivering the (almost magical) 20%+ productivity boost that its proponents seem to claim it does. I'm sure almost all people feel better when given the option to work fewer hours for the same money ... I know I would! How does that translate into increased productivity, though?

TampyChimp 4y ago
I'd think it's a combination of two things. Parkinson's Law says that you'll get your work completed in the time you're given for it. If you're given more time, the task will take more time. I think there is some truth to this. But also...people burn out and get unproductive. There will be times in the work week where you just get a lot less done or work slower. If you shorten the time working, you can put more effort into being productive all of the time, because you will have adequate time to rest and recover afterwards. If you don't have the recovery time, then you need to take the week a bit slower so you don't burn out. A lot of these companies in the trial took Wednesday off. So you can smash out loads of work and be productive for two days straight, and then completely relax for a day, rather than having to spend Tuesday pacing yourself for the whole week.
lbriner 4y ago
People realise that their dead time at work is now removed due to the day off so they need to start working smarter. They are more energised, happier, get to do things in their extra day that would otherwise be preying on their minds until the weekend etc. It also forces you to consider anything that stops you getting your work done quickly enough and have more reason to get rid of it. Not sure how it works with a Fish and Chip shop but I suspect that even service organisations that need 24/7 cover could make up the shortfall by increased happiness and motivation. For those of us who have a lot of work to do, I couldn't possibly do it in less days (although I guess I would have to drop stuff) but I guess at worst, I might get less interuptions from staff.
- whywhywhywhy 4y ago
  This all relies on self driven people, people who see work as the antagonist in their lives will eventually just settle in to delivering the less than before. Same as how some people are just as productive WFH and some don’t seem to work at all from home without constant questioning and pushing. Right company and right team it could work but just a few not on the same page and you’re going to have a lopsided team where resentment will fester from both sides. >forces you to consider anything that stops you getting your work done quickly enough Significant percentage of the workforce just doesn’t think this way and never will.
- snapcaster 4y ago
  Is this comment an attempt to virtue signal? You realize that 99% of people don't view work in this way right? The standard view is "do as little as possible to avoid getting fired"
chinamn425 4y ago
Allowing sufficient rest. Guessing you are anti WFH too?
Oras 4y ago
I suppose it is related to stress. We are more productive when less stressed. Having extra day to rest, do your hobbies, more time with loved ones ... etc __should__ contribute to less stress. The extra day is not just about being at work, consider commute and other strings attached to going to work.
kibwen 4y ago
Think about it in reverse: imagine that you increased the workweek to six days. Do you think productivity would increase? Now imagine that you increased the workweek to seven days out of the week, giving workers no rest days whatsoever. Would you expect productivity to rise or fall as a result of working people to absolute unending exhaustion? Since ancient times we have known that there is a tradeoff between days of work and days of rest, which is where the idea of "rest days" came from in the first place. Societies with rest days managed to outcompete societies without rest days, despite the former seeming to produce less on paper. Regardless of whether the optimal ratio is 2:5 or 3:4 or whatever, the general mechanism is not in doubt.
- logifail 4y ago
  > Do you think productivity would increase? How are we planning on measuring productivity of our hypothetical worker, and what kind of job does she do? If she's stacking supermarket shelves, or picking and packing in a warehouse, or repairing cars, or caring for the elderly, then I think most people would assume her weekly output is basically some fairly standard "unit output/hour" figure, multiplied by the hours she works in that week. If she works fewer hours, her output decreases. If she works more hours (subject to limits, and assuming breaks, weekends, and vacation), her output increases. Here on HN we don't seem to tend to think about (or hear from) people like her, though...

TampyChimp 4y ago

I'd think it's a combination of two things. Parkinson's Law says that you'll get your work completed in the time you're given for it. If you're given more time, the task will take more time. I think there is some truth to this. But also...people burn out and get unproductive. There will be times in the work week where you just get a lot less done or work slower. If you shorten the time working, you can put more effort into being productive all of the time, because you will have adequate time to rest and recover afterwards. If you don't have the recovery time, then you need to take the week a bit slower so you don't burn out. A lot of these companies in the trial took Wednesday off. So you can smash out loads of work and be productive for two days straight, and then completely relax for a day, rather than having to spend Tuesday pacing yourself for the whole week.

lbriner 4y ago

People realise that their dead time at work is now removed due to the day off so they need to start working smarter. They are more energised, happier, get to do things in their extra day that would otherwise be preying on their minds until the weekend etc. It also forces you to consider anything that stops you getting your work done quickly enough and have more reason to get rid of it. Not sure how it works with a Fish and Chip shop but I suspect that even service organisations that need 24/7 cover could make up the shortfall by increased happiness and motivation. For those of us who have a lot of work to do, I couldn't possibly do it in less days (although I guess I would have to drop stuff) but I guess at worst, I might get less interuptions from staff.

whywhywhywhy 4y ago
This all relies on self driven people, people who see work as the antagonist in their lives will eventually just settle in to delivering the less than before. Same as how some people are just as productive WFH and some don’t seem to work at all from home without constant questioning and pushing. Right company and right team it could work but just a few not on the same page and you’re going to have a lopsided team where resentment will fester from both sides. >forces you to consider anything that stops you getting your work done quickly enough Significant percentage of the workforce just doesn’t think this way and never will.
snapcaster 4y ago
Is this comment an attempt to virtue signal? You realize that 99% of people don't view work in this way right? The standard view is "do as little as possible to avoid getting fired"

chinamn425 4y ago

Allowing sufficient rest. Guessing you are anti WFH too?

Oras 4y ago

I suppose it is related to stress. We are more productive when less stressed. Having extra day to rest, do your hobbies, more time with loved ones ... etc __should__ contribute to less stress. The extra day is not just about being at work, consider commute and other strings attached to going to work.

kibwen 4y ago

Think about it in reverse: imagine that you increased the workweek to six days. Do you think productivity would increase? Now imagine that you increased the workweek to seven days out of the week, giving workers no rest days whatsoever. Would you expect productivity to rise or fall as a result of working people to absolute unending exhaustion? Since ancient times we have known that there is a tradeoff between days of work and days of rest, which is where the idea of "rest days" came from in the first place. Societies with rest days managed to outcompete societies without rest days, despite the former seeming to produce less on paper. Regardless of whether the optimal ratio is 2:5 or 3:4 or whatever, the general mechanism is not in doubt.

logifail 4y ago
> Do you think productivity would increase? How are we planning on measuring productivity of our hypothetical worker, and what kind of job does she do? If she's stacking supermarket shelves, or picking and packing in a warehouse, or repairing cars, or caring for the elderly, then I think most people would assume her weekly output is basically some fairly standard "unit output/hour" figure, multiplied by the hours she works in that week. If she works fewer hours, her output decreases. If she works more hours (subject to limits, and assuming breaks, weekends, and vacation), her output increases. Here on HN we don't seem to tend to think about (or hear from) people like her, though...