5 ms·

Let me be the first to call this what it is - a strongly written opinion piece. It's a lifestyle choice - if you go to sleep at 11pm of course 8am classess wil

Let me be the first to call this what it is - a strongly written opinion piece. It's a lifestyle choice - if you go to sleep at 11pm of course 8am classess will make you detest them will have no concentration. Especially true if you use your phone up until you fall asleep. I was a student until recently and can say most of the burden is unfortunately on us. From my experience students lock themself in their room listen to music/play games/scroll social media until midnight. Instead of building a community where hanging out/studying with other students until lets say 8pm and then going to sleep would be the best for most students. When hanging out in groups you are filling our your need for socializing and more likely to regulate each other. When everyone is siloed in their own room you are more likely to see extreme disregulation like going to sleep at 1/2am on most days. Not everyone is a morning person I will concede that much. But being a morning person, there is NOTHING that makes a day more cursed for me than waking up at 9AM when the sun is already up and most people are out and about. In my opinion, what students (and all of us) need is universal digital hygene. A set of guidelines where we would finally be able to follow if we ever fall into disregulation. Not advocating for China style timeout lockdowns of your netflix/games, just a general set of guidelines so that if you stay up until 23pm /1am - it's your responsibility. Just like it's your responsibility to not regulate every other aspect of your life. You should be encouraged to be an adult.

jclulow 4y ago
It's amazing to see you castigate the article as mere opinion and then go on to write a comment that is not merely mere opinion but also quite mean-spirited and making no room for the idea that different people work quite differently actually. I have ADHD, which I didn't know when I was a teenager in the era before the phones you're blaming for poor sleep hygiene. I have struggled for essentially my entire life with sleep routine. I can't for the life of me get to bed at the same time every day; after three decades of trying I just don't think it is something I am readily capable of doing. It works for a few days and then gets later and later and eventually it's so late that I'm ruined by 8pm and I reset for another cycle. This is, as it turns out, not uncommon among folks with ADHD and similar conditions -- and those conditions are more likely than you would obviously believe them to be. So, while it absolutely is my responsibility to regulate my life, I feel you can probably keep your sanctimonious encouragement to adulthood!
- WaterSupreme 4y ago
  I hear you. I also know people with ADHD, and know how it affects them. We all know it is a struggle and I am not asserting you or any other person with ADHD is less of an adult for it. You bear that burden and everything that goes with it, and I respect that. However, there has to be something that the human society should cling to. And that is the natural sunrise/sunset cycles of our environment. We cannot please everyone, but could you agree with me on this ? How else could we structure our universities and workdays if not according to our natural environment? I sadly cannot think of a way that does not include layers and layers of renduncancies and around the clock university lectures which would cater to everyone, and ultimately to noone. As we would open a pandora's box of people waking up at 6am, 9am, 13am, 3pm, and imagine the complexity of catering to ALL of those cases.
  - Ensorceled 4y ago
    > I hear you. I also know people with ADHD, and know how it affects them. > However, That's kind of how a lot of society works for the disabled: "I'm really sympathetic to your disability, however..."
  - dalmo3 4y ago
    > However, there has to be something that the human society should cling to. And that is the natural sunrise/sunset cycles of our environment. We cannot please everyone, but could you agree with me on this ? 100%. Everything should open/start at noon and close/finish at midnight.
- waterhouse 4y ago
  It is interesting to see what Wiki says about the evidence for sleep hygiene. However, as of 2021, the empirical evidence for the effectiveness of sleep hygiene is "limited and inconclusive" for the general population[1] and for the treatment of insomnia,[2] despite being the oldest treatment for insomnia.[2] A systematic review by the AASM concluded that clinicians should not prescribe sleep hygiene for insomnia due to the evidence of absence of its efficacy and potential delaying of adequate treatment, recommending instead that effective therapies such as CBT-i should be preferred.[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sleep_hygiene https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sleep_hygiene I note that plenty of the things I'm told not to do, for sleep hygiene, are coping mechanisms for bad sleep. If I'm tired, then standing and sitting upright are unpleasant, so I'd rather do things lying down. If I can't get to sleep but am tired, then I'd like to do something to occupy my mind while I'm in bed. This creates an obvious confounding mechanism that would generate correlations (of the type "Bandages cause injuries!"). I also note with amusement "There is support showing positive sleep outcomes for people who follow more than one sleep hygiene recommendation"; if this isn't done by randomized assignment, then probably the people who follow multiple recommendations are (a) more motivated to fix their sleep, (b) less impaired in their ability to do difficult and inconvenient things, etc. One would hope that people would require much stronger evidence than correlations before making recommendations, but I have learned not to assume that. Some specific things have been proven. For example, there have been studies where they had people sit in a relatively dark room, with an LED of varying color, and measured the amount of melatonin in their saliva, and found that blue and green light reduced melatonin significantly more than yellow and red light. But I would recommend reading the studies before putting stock in any particular costly recommendation.
caconym_ 4y ago
I went to university before modern social media existed, was very social "IRL", and still struggled with early morning classes. I don't think your theory holds water.
- WaterSupreme 4y ago
  The social media addiction is not a universal scapegoat, I agree with you on that. However I just wanted to express what I saw when I was a student. I saw people that are lost and dont know how to regulate because they don't percieve excessive screen time as something unhealthy. Not claiming I was enthusiastic about every single morning class also, which is understandable as some days I just went to party or had long study sessions for some exam or project. And I also struggled with excessive screen time myself. When I cut that out I noticed a huge amount of energy boost in my life. The only thing I stand behind and regard as a fact in my comment is the rythm of the natural environment. I don't see how we could structure our society if not in respect to the natural environment of sunrise/sunset.
mold_aid 4y ago
What on earth is a "weakly written opinion piece" just as a matter of arguing this through contrast More to the point: Honestly my 8ams in 1991 had these exact problems! Parking, partying, sleeping in class, the whole schlemozzle. We did not have phones but we did have TVs - there are millions of people who for a lack of something better to do have entire Seinfeld/Simpsons episodes locked in their heads. But considering the amount of students whose primary social activity is "I go back to my dorm room and play CoD with my high school friends" you have a point. But I'd suggest that the activity indicates a mental wellness issue for first gen student. Loneliness, insecurity - it impacts their digital hygiene and can't be addressed by "be more adult." That said, I see thriving club and extracurricular activity here, too ("when hanging out in groups") and I think it's healthy but largely unregulated in that all kinds of unhealthy interpersonal interactions emerge there. Or is binge drinking no longer an issue? And yr professors...well. These adults are doomscrolling and gaming and going to shows and being parents and all that stuff on top of the assignments and prep that they have, too. So I don't think this is all reducible to media use. I remember just having to stare blankly the five minutes before classes began, where students now just look at their phones, so it's not like students staring at phones is something GenXers wouldn't have done. I like to get there and just maintain uninterrupted eye contact with them until they are suitably freaked out. It's a pedagogy
eimrine 4y ago
As someone who have switched from being a night owl to waking up as early as the darkness disappears I can report a significantly greater quality of life. Especially combined with morning workout routine at least 3 times a week.

jclulow 4y ago

It's amazing to see you castigate the article as mere opinion and then go on to write a comment that is not merely mere opinion but also quite mean-spirited and making no room for the idea that different people work quite differently actually. I have ADHD, which I didn't know when I was a teenager in the era before the phones you're blaming for poor sleep hygiene. I have struggled for essentially my entire life with sleep routine. I can't for the life of me get to bed at the same time every day; after three decades of trying I just don't think it is something I am readily capable of doing. It works for a few days and then gets later and later and eventually it's so late that I'm ruined by 8pm and I reset for another cycle. This is, as it turns out, not uncommon among folks with ADHD and similar conditions -- and those conditions are more likely than you would obviously believe them to be. So, while it absolutely is my responsibility to regulate my life, I feel you can probably keep your sanctimonious encouragement to adulthood!

WaterSupreme 4y ago
I hear you. I also know people with ADHD, and know how it affects them. We all know it is a struggle and I am not asserting you or any other person with ADHD is less of an adult for it. You bear that burden and everything that goes with it, and I respect that. However, there has to be something that the human society should cling to. And that is the natural sunrise/sunset cycles of our environment. We cannot please everyone, but could you agree with me on this ? How else could we structure our universities and workdays if not according to our natural environment? I sadly cannot think of a way that does not include layers and layers of renduncancies and around the clock university lectures which would cater to everyone, and ultimately to noone. As we would open a pandora's box of people waking up at 6am, 9am, 13am, 3pm, and imagine the complexity of catering to ALL of those cases.
- Ensorceled 4y ago
  > I hear you. I also know people with ADHD, and know how it affects them. > However, That's kind of how a lot of society works for the disabled: "I'm really sympathetic to your disability, however..."
- dalmo3 4y ago
  > However, there has to be something that the human society should cling to. And that is the natural sunrise/sunset cycles of our environment. We cannot please everyone, but could you agree with me on this ? 100%. Everything should open/start at noon and close/finish at midnight.
waterhouse 4y ago
It is interesting to see what Wiki says about the evidence for sleep hygiene. However, as of 2021, the empirical evidence for the effectiveness of sleep hygiene is "limited and inconclusive" for the general population[1] and for the treatment of insomnia,[2] despite being the oldest treatment for insomnia.[2] A systematic review by the AASM concluded that clinicians should not prescribe sleep hygiene for insomnia due to the evidence of absence of its efficacy and potential delaying of adequate treatment, recommending instead that effective therapies such as CBT-i should be preferred.[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sleep_hygiene https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sleep_hygiene I note that plenty of the things I'm told not to do, for sleep hygiene, are coping mechanisms for bad sleep. If I'm tired, then standing and sitting upright are unpleasant, so I'd rather do things lying down. If I can't get to sleep but am tired, then I'd like to do something to occupy my mind while I'm in bed. This creates an obvious confounding mechanism that would generate correlations (of the type "Bandages cause injuries!"). I also note with amusement "There is support showing positive sleep outcomes for people who follow more than one sleep hygiene recommendation"; if this isn't done by randomized assignment, then probably the people who follow multiple recommendations are (a) more motivated to fix their sleep, (b) less impaired in their ability to do difficult and inconvenient things, etc. One would hope that people would require much stronger evidence than correlations before making recommendations, but I have learned not to assume that. Some specific things have been proven. For example, there have been studies where they had people sit in a relatively dark room, with an LED of varying color, and measured the amount of melatonin in their saliva, and found that blue and green light reduced melatonin significantly more than yellow and red light. But I would recommend reading the studies before putting stock in any particular costly recommendation.

caconym_ 4y ago

I went to university before modern social media existed, was very social "IRL", and still struggled with early morning classes. I don't think your theory holds water.

WaterSupreme 4y ago
The social media addiction is not a universal scapegoat, I agree with you on that. However I just wanted to express what I saw when I was a student. I saw people that are lost and dont know how to regulate because they don't percieve excessive screen time as something unhealthy. Not claiming I was enthusiastic about every single morning class also, which is understandable as some days I just went to party or had long study sessions for some exam or project. And I also struggled with excessive screen time myself. When I cut that out I noticed a huge amount of energy boost in my life. The only thing I stand behind and regard as a fact in my comment is the rythm of the natural environment. I don't see how we could structure our society if not in respect to the natural environment of sunrise/sunset.

mold_aid 4y ago

What on earth is a "weakly written opinion piece" just as a matter of arguing this through contrast More to the point: Honestly my 8ams in 1991 had these exact problems! Parking, partying, sleeping in class, the whole schlemozzle. We did not have phones but we did have TVs - there are millions of people who for a lack of something better to do have entire Seinfeld/Simpsons episodes locked in their heads. But considering the amount of students whose primary social activity is "I go back to my dorm room and play CoD with my high school friends" you have a point. But I'd suggest that the activity indicates a mental wellness issue for first gen student. Loneliness, insecurity - it impacts their digital hygiene and can't be addressed by "be more adult." That said, I see thriving club and extracurricular activity here, too ("when hanging out in groups") and I think it's healthy but largely unregulated in that all kinds of unhealthy interpersonal interactions emerge there. Or is binge drinking no longer an issue? And yr professors...well. These adults are doomscrolling and gaming and going to shows and being parents and all that stuff on top of the assignments and prep that they have, too. So I don't think this is all reducible to media use. I remember just having to stare blankly the five minutes before classes began, where students now just look at their phones, so it's not like students staring at phones is something GenXers wouldn't have done. I like to get there and just maintain uninterrupted eye contact with them until they are suitably freaked out. It's a pedagogy

eimrine 4y ago

As someone who have switched from being a night owl to waking up as early as the darkness disappears I can report a significantly greater quality of life. Especially combined with morning workout routine at least 3 times a week.