9 ms·

Spike mRNA vaccine sequences circulate in blood up to 28 days after vaccination

86 points by gjsman-1000 4y ago

GenerocUsername 4y ago
The article mentions they ran the study from May until June, and detected mRNA 28 days after administration... I didn't see mentioned if the test period expired or if they stopped because it became undetectable. I wonder if it can be detected longer if they measured longer?
wolfium3 4y ago
Isn't that a good thing though? I.e. promote the production of more training material for the immune system for longer? (Please correct me in the thread if my understanding is incorrect)
- collias 4y ago
  The more worrying thing here is the "circulate" part. Meaning that the lipid packages containing the mRNA sequences are traveling throughout the body, instead of staying at the injection site.
  - vincnetas 4y ago
    Can you explain why circulation is not ok? Are vaccines designed to not circulate in blood streams?
    - briandon 4y ago
      The mRNA-based covid shots (and the adenovirus-vector covid shots) are a wee bit different in how they operate than pre-covid vaccines. Modified covid spike proteins are produced by host (i.e. a vaccinee's) cells. The spike proteins are anchored within the cells but "poke out" through the cellular membranes so they're able to elicit an immune system response. The cells expressing the mod-spike are ultimately destroyed. If you review pop-sci / marketing materials produced by Pfizer and Moderna and government agencies and non-profits who promoted the shots, the fate of these cells will be glossed over, but that's what happens. This is why it was important that the contents of the jabs stayed in the muscle tissue near the injection site and the process of translating all of the vax mRNA into mod-spike be rapid. If vax mRNA travelled around via the circulatory system and was taken up by cells in, say, the walls of blood vessels throughout the body or cells in the heart or pericardium or in other tissues, then some cells in those locales would be destroyed and, if enough cells in the wrong place at the wrong time were destroyed this way, bad things could happen. Observing vax mRNA persisting or existing weeks and weeks post-administration is not good for this (and additional) reasons.
      - amanaplanacanal 4y ago
        Now I'm curious, if you get infected by the virus itself, does the same thing not happen?
      - mrguyorama 4y ago
        How do you supposed "normal" vaccines work?
      - braingenious 4y ago
        You speak really confidently on this topic, can you share your background with regards to immunology/bioscience?
        fidgewidge 4y ago
        Everything he's saying is common knowledge to anyone who has researched this topic. Having a background in bioscience would not help and most likely hurt, because people within those fields are highly incentivized to suppress bad news about their prior actions.
        braingenious 4y ago
        To quote GP > If vax mRNA travelled around via the circulatory system and was taken up by cells in, say, the walls of blood vessels throughout the body or cells in the heart or pericardium or in other tissues, then some cells in those locales would be destroyed… This is something that you would consider to be common knowledge?
        fidgewidge 4y ago
        To anyone who has researched this topic, yes, and many other things. How do you think the mRNA vaccines work? If you got interested in vaccines around the middle of 2021 and started finding and subscribing to the right blogs and people, you know a whole lot of things about this topic that other people don't. These sorts of threads are a bit frustrating because it involves watching people catch up to where we were 12 months ago.
    - ekianjo 4y ago
      > not circulate in blood streams? when you do an intramuscular or subcutaneous injection you don't end up in the blood stream typically
      - rcme 4y ago
        Is that true? I remember my daughter had a severe bacterial infection and they couldn't get an IV in her so they did an intramuscular injection of antibiotics.
  - mlyle 4y ago
    > instead of staying at the injection site. We've known that forever. There's been studies done with luciferase to see where the mRNA triggers protein production in small animals. We know that a big portion of the activity is in the liver, distant from the IM injection site (a lot of the activity is at the site, too). e.g. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4624045/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4624045/ "When mRNA-LNPs were injected intramuscularly and intratracheally, similar to intravenous and intraperitoneal deliveries, a large portion of the luciferase activity was detectable in the liver, demonstrating systemic spread of the nanoparticles."
    - zpeti 4y ago
      Yes, and people like Bret Weinstein say this is a massive problem and why there’s heart inflammation, if the mrna enters heart muscle your immune system might well attack it, the problem is - heart muscle does not get remade.
      - mlyle 4y ago
        The problem with this is that there's simpler explanations. Myocarditis is more frequent with C19 infection than vaccination, so it seems spike protein circulating is "enough". Also this study didn't find significant uptake of mRNA in the heart (though it did find notable uptake in the lungs).
        nwienert 4y ago
        The Mycocarditis line is not true - it highly depends on gender and age. Repeating that its more frequent for infection outright is wrong, it is only in certain sub-populations (female, older).
        mlyle 4y ago
        https://www.ahajournals.org/doi/full/10.1161/CIRCULATIONAHA.122.059970 https://www.ahajournals.org/doi/full/10.1161/CIRCULATIONAHA.... See tables 3 and 4. Moderna does seem to have an effect in the direction you name; the Pfizer vaccine seems to have a lower risk than infection in all categories. Overall, the myocarditis risk is lower with vaccination than infection with both Moderna and Pfizer, but it may not be in some subpopulations with Moderna.
- hannob 4y ago
  It's probably neither a good or a bad thing, it's just a "we found something that may guide our future understanding of how mRNA vaccines work". Sounds like basic research that has no direct implications.
  - ekianjo 4y ago
    The surprise is why this was never tested before by Pfizer or Moderna themselves. For all drugs you typically evaluate how they are metabolized in the body, and this has never been published before. Very sloppy standards.
    - shagie 4y ago
      You are likely looking for the research done on flu vaccinations. From 2017 https://www.flagshippioneering.com/press/moderna-announces-positive-interim-phase-1-clinical-data-demonstrating-first-mrna-vaccine-candidate-mrna-1440-induces-high-levels-immunogenicity https://www.flagshippioneering.com/press/moderna-announces-p... And also from 2017 Safety, Reactogenicity, and Immunogenicity of mRNA-1653 in Healthy Adults https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT03392389 https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT03392389 The research and testing for mRNA had been a decade in the making and was already present in 2019.
      - ekianjo 4y ago
        You need to do that for every new drug marketed, you can't just refer to prior art.
yeahbutiguess 4y ago
Interesting. It seems like the mRNA itself breaks down in most cases like expected, but sometimes the particles/packages that contain the mRNA don't ever get opened, meaning the mRNA is never processed or exposed to the body.
briandon 4y ago
As Campbell asked, why has it been left to Danish researchers (who were doing Hepatitis C testing and decided to tack on an assay for covid jab mod-spike mRNA) to look into these questions? Why haven't Moderna or Pfizer undertaken large-scale studies of this type? Why haven't they been mandated by large regulatory agencies in the USA, UK, et al.; Japan; etc.? Why haven't well-funded researchers in those nations done similar work? We're so far downstream from the initial rollout that nobody seems to recall the blanket assurances that all of the mRNA in the shots would be taken up and translated into modified spike proteins in a very short period given by health authorities and putative experts during the height of the coercion campaigns. It's much the same as with the issue of biodistribution. Most have forgotten why we were promised the contents of one of these shots remained at the injection site and how the practice of aspiration of the needle (done in Denmark, after concerns were raised, but rarely done elsewhere) was pooh-poohed. The same individuals and entities preached the stays-in-the-arm gospel and derided anyone who raised concern or produced research results indicating wider distribution, via the vasculature, throughout recipients' bodies. The same people who promulgate the idea that VAERS and the Yellow Card system and analogous institutions are now honeypots for fake reports from Russian bots or the "Science Truster' bogeyman du jour. Oh well. Spilled milk at this point. The revelations will continue to trickle out for the foreseeable future. Turnover in the upper echelons of regulatory and funding bodies and in academic biomed research will gradually loosen more tongues. Eventually, there may be large lawsuits and settlements. We will see.
- bilekas 4y ago
  I'm no medical professional but this seems like a bit of an over reaction given the article. The article doesn't make mention if there is anything particularly negative about this. More focuses on the behavior of the mRNA after a given time. I imagine to know something like that would be useful for later itterarations or variations of mRNA applications?
  - briandon 4y ago
    Making cells in your body produce an antigen that stays rooted within those cells and causes them to be destroyed is risky business. There are reasonable applications, like products selectively taken up by cancer cells that cause them to be targeted for elimination by the patient's immune system, for these techniques. And wider applications for products that cause a patient's cells to produce non-antigenic materials. I'm a proponent of mRNA therapies. The mRNA (and adenovirus-vector) covid shots, however, indiscriminately cause (healthy) cells to produce and display antigens (the transmembrane-anchored modified covid spike) and, intentionally, kick off an immune response that gets those cells killed. I'm not a proponent of this specific type of pharmaceutical product.
briandon 4y ago
This post, a link to a peer-reviewed paper published in mid-January 2023 ("SARS-CoV-2 spike mRNA vaccine sequences circulate in blood up to 28 days after COVID-19 vaccination"), has been flagged. This action is typical of the efforts, top-down and bottom-up, to suppress open discussion of the risks and the harm and suffering caused by many aspects of the responses to covid-19. To the flaggers: you are abusing this site's flagging functionality, most probably in an attempt to prevent the dissemination of valid scientific research that has a real bearing on public health decision-making. Your behavior is disgraceful.
- dang 4y ago
  We've turned the flags off the article now. I realize it's frustrating when a story is flagged which you consider on-topic, but please don't call names ("your behavior is disgraceful") post in the flamewar style to HN. It only makes things worse. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
  - briandon 4y ago
    Thank you.
- vfclists 4y ago
  [flagged]
AlbertoGP 4y ago
There are two other studies I know of about this: 2022-03-17: “Immune imprinting, breadth of variant recognition, and germinal center response in human SARS-CoV-2 infection and vaccination” > “Prolonged detection of vaccine mRNA in LN GCs [lymph node germinal center https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Germinal_center https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Germinal_center] and spike antigen in LN GCs and blood following SARS-CoV-2 mRNA vaccination” > “Immunohistochemical staining for spike antigen in mRNA-vaccinated patient LNs varied between individuals but showed abundant spike protein in GCs 16 days post-second dose, with spike antigen still present as late as 60 days post-second dose. ” https://www.cell.com/cell/fulltext/S0092-8674%2822%2900076-9 https://www.cell.com/cell/fulltext/S0092-8674%2822%2900076-9 2022-06-28: “Vaccine mRNA Can Be Detected in Blood at 15 Days Post-Vaccination” > “A recent ultrasensitive single-molecule assay was however able to detect the S-protein in the plasma of some mRNA-1273 COVID-19 vaccinees at 15 days following injection [12], while in another study, both mRNA and S-protein could be found in axillary LNs after 60 days [13]. Moreover, extracellular vesicles decorated with S-proteins persist up to 4 months after vaccination with BNT162b2 [14]. This raises the possibility that LNP–mRNA complexes remain in circulation for extended periods of time, retaining their ability to induce S-protein expression in contacted cells.” > “In plasma, mRNA was immediately detectable at just hours following vaccination, remained detectable when sampled at 6 and 15 days (Figure 1A, green), but was below the limit of quantification (LoQ) for one sample at 27 days. Samples from negative controls did not amplify. For subject B3, we observed a similar trend for plasma: vaccine-associated mRNA became detectable immediately after vaccination and remained significantly above the LoQ at day 14 (Figure 1B, green). Interestingly, vaccine mRNA was detected in the cellular fraction up to day 6 in some samples from our cohort, whereas for B3, it was only detectable at one day after vaccination (Figure 1A,B, orange). It has to be noted that the likelihood of detecting vaccine mRNA in the cellular fraction decreased significantly at 24 h from injection, which was in contrast to plasma in which mRNA remained consistently detectable up to day 15 (Figure 1C).” https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9313234/# https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9313234/# The CDC for instance states in its website: > “mRNA vaccines use mRNA created in a laboratory to teach our cells how to make a protein—or even just a piece of a protein—that triggers an immune response inside our bodies. The mRNA from the vaccines is broken down within a few days after vaccination and discarded from the body.” https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/different-vaccines/overview-COVID-19-vaccines.html#mrna https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/different...
Baloo 4y ago
Posted this article to r/science, got banned. Great.

86 points by gjsman-1000 4y ago

The article mentions they ran the study from May until June, and detected mRNA 28 days after administration... I didn't see mentioned if the test period expired or if they stopped because it became undetectable. I wonder if it can be detected longer if they measured longer?

wolfium3 4y ago

Isn't that a good thing though? I.e. promote the production of more training material for the immune system for longer? (Please correct me in the thread if my understanding is incorrect)

collias 4y ago
The more worrying thing here is the "circulate" part. Meaning that the lipid packages containing the mRNA sequences are traveling throughout the body, instead of staying at the injection site.
- vincnetas 4y ago
  Can you explain why circulation is not ok? Are vaccines designed to not circulate in blood streams?
  - briandon 4y ago
    The mRNA-based covid shots (and the adenovirus-vector covid shots) are a wee bit different in how they operate than pre-covid vaccines. Modified covid spike proteins are produced by host (i.e. a vaccinee's) cells. The spike proteins are anchored within the cells but "poke out" through the cellular membranes so they're able to elicit an immune system response. The cells expressing the mod-spike are ultimately destroyed. If you review pop-sci / marketing materials produced by Pfizer and Moderna and government agencies and non-profits who promoted the shots, the fate of these cells will be glossed over, but that's what happens. This is why it was important that the contents of the jabs stayed in the muscle tissue near the injection site and the process of translating all of the vax mRNA into mod-spike be rapid. If vax mRNA travelled around via the circulatory system and was taken up by cells in, say, the walls of blood vessels throughout the body or cells in the heart or pericardium or in other tissues, then some cells in those locales would be destroyed and, if enough cells in the wrong place at the wrong time were destroyed this way, bad things could happen. Observing vax mRNA persisting or existing weeks and weeks post-administration is not good for this (and additional) reasons.
    - amanaplanacanal 4y ago
      Now I'm curious, if you get infected by the virus itself, does the same thing not happen?
    - mrguyorama 4y ago
      How do you supposed "normal" vaccines work?
    - braingenious 4y ago
      You speak really confidently on this topic, can you share your background with regards to immunology/bioscience?
      - fidgewidge 4y ago
        Everything he's saying is common knowledge to anyone who has researched this topic. Having a background in bioscience would not help and most likely hurt, because people within those fields are highly incentivized to suppress bad news about their prior actions.
        braingenious 4y ago
        To quote GP > If vax mRNA travelled around via the circulatory system and was taken up by cells in, say, the walls of blood vessels throughout the body or cells in the heart or pericardium or in other tissues, then some cells in those locales would be destroyed… This is something that you would consider to be common knowledge?
        fidgewidge 4y ago
        To anyone who has researched this topic, yes, and many other things. How do you think the mRNA vaccines work? If you got interested in vaccines around the middle of 2021 and started finding and subscribing to the right blogs and people, you know a whole lot of things about this topic that other people don't. These sorts of threads are a bit frustrating because it involves watching people catch up to where we were 12 months ago.
  - ekianjo 4y ago
    > not circulate in blood streams? when you do an intramuscular or subcutaneous injection you don't end up in the blood stream typically
    - rcme 4y ago
      Is that true? I remember my daughter had a severe bacterial infection and they couldn't get an IV in her so they did an intramuscular injection of antibiotics.
- mlyle 4y ago
  > instead of staying at the injection site. We've known that forever. There's been studies done with luciferase to see where the mRNA triggers protein production in small animals. We know that a big portion of the activity is in the liver, distant from the IM injection site (a lot of the activity is at the site, too). e.g. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4624045/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4624045/ "When mRNA-LNPs were injected intramuscularly and intratracheally, similar to intravenous and intraperitoneal deliveries, a large portion of the luciferase activity was detectable in the liver, demonstrating systemic spread of the nanoparticles."
  - zpeti 4y ago
    Yes, and people like Bret Weinstein say this is a massive problem and why there’s heart inflammation, if the mrna enters heart muscle your immune system might well attack it, the problem is - heart muscle does not get remade.
    - mlyle 4y ago
      The problem with this is that there's simpler explanations. Myocarditis is more frequent with C19 infection than vaccination, so it seems spike protein circulating is "enough". Also this study didn't find significant uptake of mRNA in the heart (though it did find notable uptake in the lungs).
      - nwienert 4y ago
        The Mycocarditis line is not true - it highly depends on gender and age. Repeating that its more frequent for infection outright is wrong, it is only in certain sub-populations (female, older).
        mlyle 4y ago
        https://www.ahajournals.org/doi/full/10.1161/CIRCULATIONAHA.122.059970 https://www.ahajournals.org/doi/full/10.1161/CIRCULATIONAHA.... See tables 3 and 4. Moderna does seem to have an effect in the direction you name; the Pfizer vaccine seems to have a lower risk than infection in all categories. Overall, the myocarditis risk is lower with vaccination than infection with both Moderna and Pfizer, but it may not be in some subpopulations with Moderna.
hannob 4y ago
It's probably neither a good or a bad thing, it's just a "we found something that may guide our future understanding of how mRNA vaccines work". Sounds like basic research that has no direct implications.
- ekianjo 4y ago
  The surprise is why this was never tested before by Pfizer or Moderna themselves. For all drugs you typically evaluate how they are metabolized in the body, and this has never been published before. Very sloppy standards.
  - shagie 4y ago
    You are likely looking for the research done on flu vaccinations. From 2017 https://www.flagshippioneering.com/press/moderna-announces-positive-interim-phase-1-clinical-data-demonstrating-first-mrna-vaccine-candidate-mrna-1440-induces-high-levels-immunogenicity https://www.flagshippioneering.com/press/moderna-announces-p... And also from 2017 Safety, Reactogenicity, and Immunogenicity of mRNA-1653 in Healthy Adults https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT03392389 https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT03392389 The research and testing for mRNA had been a decade in the making and was already present in 2019.
    - ekianjo 4y ago
      You need to do that for every new drug marketed, you can't just refer to prior art.

yeahbutiguess 4y ago

Interesting. It seems like the mRNA itself breaks down in most cases like expected, but sometimes the particles/packages that contain the mRNA don't ever get opened, meaning the mRNA is never processed or exposed to the body.

briandon 4y ago

As Campbell asked, why has it been left to Danish researchers (who were doing Hepatitis C testing and decided to tack on an assay for covid jab mod-spike mRNA) to look into these questions? Why haven't Moderna or Pfizer undertaken large-scale studies of this type? Why haven't they been mandated by large regulatory agencies in the USA, UK, et al.; Japan; etc.? Why haven't well-funded researchers in those nations done similar work? We're so far downstream from the initial rollout that nobody seems to recall the blanket assurances that all of the mRNA in the shots would be taken up and translated into modified spike proteins in a very short period given by health authorities and putative experts during the height of the coercion campaigns. It's much the same as with the issue of biodistribution. Most have forgotten why we were promised the contents of one of these shots remained at the injection site and how the practice of aspiration of the needle (done in Denmark, after concerns were raised, but rarely done elsewhere) was pooh-poohed. The same individuals and entities preached the stays-in-the-arm gospel and derided anyone who raised concern or produced research results indicating wider distribution, via the vasculature, throughout recipients' bodies. The same people who promulgate the idea that VAERS and the Yellow Card system and analogous institutions are now honeypots for fake reports from Russian bots or the "Science Truster' bogeyman du jour. Oh well. Spilled milk at this point. The revelations will continue to trickle out for the foreseeable future. Turnover in the upper echelons of regulatory and funding bodies and in academic biomed research will gradually loosen more tongues. Eventually, there may be large lawsuits and settlements. We will see.

bilekas 4y ago
I'm no medical professional but this seems like a bit of an over reaction given the article. The article doesn't make mention if there is anything particularly negative about this. More focuses on the behavior of the mRNA after a given time. I imagine to know something like that would be useful for later itterarations or variations of mRNA applications?
- briandon 4y ago
  Making cells in your body produce an antigen that stays rooted within those cells and causes them to be destroyed is risky business. There are reasonable applications, like products selectively taken up by cancer cells that cause them to be targeted for elimination by the patient's immune system, for these techniques. And wider applications for products that cause a patient's cells to produce non-antigenic materials. I'm a proponent of mRNA therapies. The mRNA (and adenovirus-vector) covid shots, however, indiscriminately cause (healthy) cells to produce and display antigens (the transmembrane-anchored modified covid spike) and, intentionally, kick off an immune response that gets those cells killed. I'm not a proponent of this specific type of pharmaceutical product.

briandon 4y ago

This post, a link to a peer-reviewed paper published in mid-January 2023 ("SARS-CoV-2 spike mRNA vaccine sequences circulate in blood up to 28 days after COVID-19 vaccination"), has been flagged. This action is typical of the efforts, top-down and bottom-up, to suppress open discussion of the risks and the harm and suffering caused by many aspects of the responses to covid-19. To the flaggers: you are abusing this site's flagging functionality, most probably in an attempt to prevent the dissemination of valid scientific research that has a real bearing on public health decision-making. Your behavior is disgraceful.

dang 4y ago
We've turned the flags off the article now. I realize it's frustrating when a story is flagged which you consider on-topic, but please don't call names ("your behavior is disgraceful") post in the flamewar style to HN. It only makes things worse. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
- briandon 4y ago
  Thank you.
vfclists 4y ago
[flagged]

AlbertoGP 4y ago

There are two other studies I know of about this: 2022-03-17: “Immune imprinting, breadth of variant recognition, and germinal center response in human SARS-CoV-2 infection and vaccination” > “Prolonged detection of vaccine mRNA in LN GCs [lymph node germinal center https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Germinal_center https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Germinal_center] and spike antigen in LN GCs and blood following SARS-CoV-2 mRNA vaccination” > “Immunohistochemical staining for spike antigen in mRNA-vaccinated patient LNs varied between individuals but showed abundant spike protein in GCs 16 days post-second dose, with spike antigen still present as late as 60 days post-second dose. ” https://www.cell.com/cell/fulltext/S0092-8674%2822%2900076-9 https://www.cell.com/cell/fulltext/S0092-8674%2822%2900076-9 2022-06-28: “Vaccine mRNA Can Be Detected in Blood at 15 Days Post-Vaccination” > “A recent ultrasensitive single-molecule assay was however able to detect the S-protein in the plasma of some mRNA-1273 COVID-19 vaccinees at 15 days following injection [12], while in another study, both mRNA and S-protein could be found in axillary LNs after 60 days [13]. Moreover, extracellular vesicles decorated with S-proteins persist up to 4 months after vaccination with BNT162b2 [14]. This raises the possibility that LNP–mRNA complexes remain in circulation for extended periods of time, retaining their ability to induce S-protein expression in contacted cells.” > “In plasma, mRNA was immediately detectable at just hours following vaccination, remained detectable when sampled at 6 and 15 days (Figure 1A, green), but was below the limit of quantification (LoQ) for one sample at 27 days. Samples from negative controls did not amplify. For subject B3, we observed a similar trend for plasma: vaccine-associated mRNA became detectable immediately after vaccination and remained significantly above the LoQ at day 14 (Figure 1B, green). Interestingly, vaccine mRNA was detected in the cellular fraction up to day 6 in some samples from our cohort, whereas for B3, it was only detectable at one day after vaccination (Figure 1A,B, orange). It has to be noted that the likelihood of detecting vaccine mRNA in the cellular fraction decreased significantly at 24 h from injection, which was in contrast to plasma in which mRNA remained consistently detectable up to day 15 (Figure 1C).” https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9313234/# https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9313234/# The CDC for instance states in its website: > “mRNA vaccines use mRNA created in a laboratory to teach our cells how to make a protein—or even just a piece of a protein—that triggers an immune response inside our bodies. The mRNA from the vaccines is broken down within a few days after vaccination and discarded from the body.” https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/different-vaccines/overview-COVID-19-vaccines.html#mrna https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/different...

Baloo 4y ago

Posted this article to r/science, got banned. Great.