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There is a hierarchy of methods to get the job done (to close the production/consumption loop with exchange of information), ranked in order from evil to sublim

There is a hierarchy of methods to get the job done (to close the production/consumption loop with exchange of information), ranked in order from evil to sublime: * Spy on and and profile people, (mostly unawares) and push ads by finding their "buttons" * Create (mostly false) desires across segments of society and use every surface to influence * Push (more or less) objective catalogs for people to select what they need * Dont push anything, simply give people tools to pull the objective facts I think the more psychologically healthy and environmentally sustainable societies will gradually gravitate away from the worst forms of advertising

marketerinland 4y ago
This is great. I really like this way of presenting the idea. It’s happening more or less organically, what you’ve described. Users are spending more time in Messenger as opposed to the news feed. Messenger groups are very hard to reach using ads.
- jehb 4y ago
  You may be right in terms of where people are gravitating. But the irony in this is that Messenger only exists to keep people coming back to the ad platform. To me, the question is, how to we convince more people to take a position of rejecting of harmful ad platforms altogether? In this example, this might mean ditching Messenger for Signal.
  - marketerinland 4y ago
    At some point, we need to accept that HN is not the broader community. Most people don’t care about this problem; most don’t even see it as a problem. If they did, politicians would be talking about it all the time, and it would be a major issue, but it’s not. Sure, the privacy angle has gotten political traction and that’s fine. But it’s the privacy angle - not the overexposure to ads - that is connecting here. Just look at the penetration of ad blockers - it is not that high. HN has a default assumption sometimes that people enjoy spending hours looking at specs and trying to figure things out. My experience is that human beings are weird, wonderful and different. Some people enjoy doing this. Most people do not. But, in this case, the proof is in the pudding.
threatofrain 4y ago
I'd add to this list somewhere legal, correct, but utterly dishonest marketing language meant to confuse people. This includes hidden fees.
- tarotuser 4y ago
  "Up to...." "Save ___ or more!" "Sale! X% off" (but is always 'on sale') "Only X left! (Where x is random number from 1-9)

marketerinland 4y ago

This is great. I really like this way of presenting the idea. It’s happening more or less organically, what you’ve described. Users are spending more time in Messenger as opposed to the news feed. Messenger groups are very hard to reach using ads.

jehb 4y ago
You may be right in terms of where people are gravitating. But the irony in this is that Messenger only exists to keep people coming back to the ad platform. To me, the question is, how to we convince more people to take a position of rejecting of harmful ad platforms altogether? In this example, this might mean ditching Messenger for Signal.
- marketerinland 4y ago
  At some point, we need to accept that HN is not the broader community. Most people don’t care about this problem; most don’t even see it as a problem. If they did, politicians would be talking about it all the time, and it would be a major issue, but it’s not. Sure, the privacy angle has gotten political traction and that’s fine. But it’s the privacy angle - not the overexposure to ads - that is connecting here. Just look at the penetration of ad blockers - it is not that high. HN has a default assumption sometimes that people enjoy spending hours looking at specs and trying to figure things out. My experience is that human beings are weird, wonderful and different. Some people enjoy doing this. Most people do not. But, in this case, the proof is in the pudding.

threatofrain 4y ago

I'd add to this list somewhere legal, correct, but utterly dishonest marketing language meant to confuse people. This includes hidden fees.

tarotuser 4y ago
"Up to...." "Save ___ or more!" "Sale! X% off" (but is always 'on sale') "Only X left! (Where x is random number from 1-9)