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Ads are a brute force mechanism to generate consumption demand. But society in the developed world has satiated itself with consumption, maxed out on its credit

Ads are a brute force mechanism to generate consumption demand. But society in the developed world has satiated itself with consumption, maxed out on its credit etc and is not happier, arguably more stress and dissatisfied than before. On top, the environmental bills of that pointless overconsumption keep growing. So things will change irrespective of whether "they must". People will try to find solace in other ways. Economic structures and social preferences are ever evolving - we tend to ascribe to the recent past a longevity and stability that it does not have. The digital age may accelerate such transitions. Or supress them. It is still a toss. Surveillance capitalism was built on adtech but is somehow conditioned on the masses forever having no agency and no control over digital devices and information flows.

CatWChainsaw 4y ago
Are there any trends that suggest power in the digital sphere will be returning to the masses? Mobile OSes have been pretty locked down pretty much from the start of the smartphone, and the two desktop OSes that most people use have different flavors of UX control; Windows in particular has taken a nosedive in user autonomy. And that's to say nothing of the websites and social media used.
- college_physics 4y ago
  All valid (and depressing) data points. It takes some inate optimism to think that things could be otherwise but I believe the commoditisation of digital infrastructure and the suboptimal stewardship acts against its ongoing tight control by a small entrenched minority. The underlying zero marginal cost trend is gnawing at the foundations of the current architecture. The wave upon wave of fizzling hypes is one symptom of this. The other headwind is expressed at the macro level as the missing IT productivity that economists puzzle over. Simply put: the tech industry, through its recurrent monopolies, adtech business models etc is holding societies and economies back. Not developing the tools that will increase welfare both on a financial and psychological scale. The same commoditized tech deployed in a decentralized way could open up a completely new era. As has been stated many times, we live in a feudal digital system and we know for a fact that market systems are superior to feudalism.
  - CatWChainsaw 4y ago
    I'll grant that perhaps the giant will eat itself, or collapse on its own weight. In a general sense, I'm inclined to believe that there will be at least a couple more decades of digital feudalism before it really breaks, and it breaking does not guarantee a return of the Internet of Yore in its aftermath. I applaud open source software and the little guy, but realistically they have to burn the candle at both ends in order to keep the dream alive for a new generation to pick up the torch. That said, I'm pessimistic and cynical, and I find myself seeing every new "advancement" as portentous of a grim future.
chmod600 4y ago
"maxed out on its credit etc and is not happier" I came to the conclusion that sustaining the status quo, and even growing modestly, doesn't require a huge amount of effort on average (relative to history, of course). But doing new things does require huge effort. Inventions, discoveries, traveling, new engineering challenges, etc., all seem to take a lot of resources, and the relative share of that consumption seems to be increasing. Lots of people complain about America, and with good reason. But America also does a lot of stuff and there's no denying that. America was heavily involved in almost any invention or advancement that comes to mind from the last hundred years. America is the dominant force in NATO, which seems to have a renewed sense of purpose after a non-NATO country was invaded. And America absorbs huge numbers of migrants for all kinds of reasons, and many of them turn out to be a lot more productive once here. It's hard to imagine all of that happening if everyone was maximizing for happiness. I'm not saying that it's better than happiness, just that it seems America is maximizing something else. (Disclaimer: of course resources are still wasted in pursuit of these other things, and there are externalities.)
- college_physics 4y ago
  There are many complicating factors but arguably there were never more people around with the means to sort out the wheat from the chaff if they had the right incentives. Happiness is obviously intertwined with techological development as anybody wearing glasses or cured from a nasty disease would happily testify. On the other hand much of the planet is nowhere near saturating its consumption appetite and it is actually physically imposible for this to happen to US standards - a permanent destabilizing force. Inventing 'sustainable consumption' is growth in itself but there is a raging debate about whether it can substitute for current practices.

CatWChainsaw 4y ago

Are there any trends that suggest power in the digital sphere will be returning to the masses? Mobile OSes have been pretty locked down pretty much from the start of the smartphone, and the two desktop OSes that most people use have different flavors of UX control; Windows in particular has taken a nosedive in user autonomy. And that's to say nothing of the websites and social media used.

college_physics 4y ago
All valid (and depressing) data points. It takes some inate optimism to think that things could be otherwise but I believe the commoditisation of digital infrastructure and the suboptimal stewardship acts against its ongoing tight control by a small entrenched minority. The underlying zero marginal cost trend is gnawing at the foundations of the current architecture. The wave upon wave of fizzling hypes is one symptom of this. The other headwind is expressed at the macro level as the missing IT productivity that economists puzzle over. Simply put: the tech industry, through its recurrent monopolies, adtech business models etc is holding societies and economies back. Not developing the tools that will increase welfare both on a financial and psychological scale. The same commoditized tech deployed in a decentralized way could open up a completely new era. As has been stated many times, we live in a feudal digital system and we know for a fact that market systems are superior to feudalism.
- CatWChainsaw 4y ago
  I'll grant that perhaps the giant will eat itself, or collapse on its own weight. In a general sense, I'm inclined to believe that there will be at least a couple more decades of digital feudalism before it really breaks, and it breaking does not guarantee a return of the Internet of Yore in its aftermath. I applaud open source software and the little guy, but realistically they have to burn the candle at both ends in order to keep the dream alive for a new generation to pick up the torch. That said, I'm pessimistic and cynical, and I find myself seeing every new "advancement" as portentous of a grim future.

chmod600 4y ago

"maxed out on its credit etc and is not happier" I came to the conclusion that sustaining the status quo, and even growing modestly, doesn't require a huge amount of effort on average (relative to history, of course). But doing new things does require huge effort. Inventions, discoveries, traveling, new engineering challenges, etc., all seem to take a lot of resources, and the relative share of that consumption seems to be increasing. Lots of people complain about America, and with good reason. But America also does a lot of stuff and there's no denying that. America was heavily involved in almost any invention or advancement that comes to mind from the last hundred years. America is the dominant force in NATO, which seems to have a renewed sense of purpose after a non-NATO country was invaded. And America absorbs huge numbers of migrants for all kinds of reasons, and many of them turn out to be a lot more productive once here. It's hard to imagine all of that happening if everyone was maximizing for happiness. I'm not saying that it's better than happiness, just that it seems America is maximizing something else. (Disclaimer: of course resources are still wasted in pursuit of these other things, and there are externalities.)

college_physics 4y ago
There are many complicating factors but arguably there were never more people around with the means to sort out the wheat from the chaff if they had the right incentives. Happiness is obviously intertwined with techological development as anybody wearing glasses or cured from a nasty disease would happily testify. On the other hand much of the planet is nowhere near saturating its consumption appetite and it is actually physically imposible for this to happen to US standards - a permanent destabilizing force. Inventing 'sustainable consumption' is growth in itself but there is a raging debate about whether it can substitute for current practices.