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> The Latino voting bloc, growing every day, votes against immigration reduction (or even enforcement, via sanctuary cities) out of ethnic solidarity. I'm see

> The Latino voting bloc, growing every day, votes against immigration reduction (or even enforcement, via sanctuary cities) out of ethnic solidarity. I'm seeing numbers that conflict with your assertion, above. I've heard that Latinos are in favor of border security, more so than immigration. From one of the references in the featured article [0]: > Less than half of registered Latino voters believe that the U.S.-Mexico border is totally secure ... over half of respondents said border security is a more important issue than immigration, 59% to 35%. Trump was very much anti-immigration, was very outspoken campaigning on that topic, and took what actions he could to decrease immigration when he was in office. Given this he got more Latino votes than Romney did in 2012 - 27% of Latinos voted for Romney in 2012, 29% for Trump in 2016, and grew his share of the Latino voters to 32% in 2020 [1]. I don't think the numbers you quoted support your point, especially given the more specific conflicting data I found. The article you got your numbers above from talked about perceptions of discrimination in the U.S., and how those perceptions have changed recently. I would assume that when minorities are treated differently by the majority because of their race they will say that their race is important to their identity, they can't escape being what they are and have to live with how they are treated. Why would you assume that means they'd treat other people unfairly? It doesn't have to be that way. Black South Africans gave amnesty to the whites there for the horrible things they did. > The simple reality is Whites will become a minority in what was an 84% White country as recently as 1970. Will they be treated with gratitude for sharing their country, and so can afford to act colorblind, forsaking racial solidarity? Is gratitude what they're being shown now? Immigrants choose to come here, even when it's very difficult to do so, and they very much appreciate what the opportunities they have in the U.S. They want to work for better lives, just like those who immigrated before them. They certainly don't come here to hate on whites and ruin the country. Southern and eastern European immigrants were looked down upon, mistreated and feared as the "others" by white anglo-saxon protestants a century ago, but by 1970 they are part of that 84% white population statistic that you quoted. They are one of us. Turns out there was nothing to be afraid of. [0] https://usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2022/10/04/latino-voters-southern-border-poll/8168969001/ https://usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2022/10/04/latino-v... [1] https://www.as-coa.org/articles/chart-how-us-latinos-voted-2020-presidential-election https://www.as-coa.org/articles/chart-how-us-latinos-voted-2...

rayiner 4y ago
> Southern and eastern European immigrants were looked down upon, mistreated and feared as the "others" by white anglo-saxon protestants a century ago, but by 1970 they are part of that 84% white population statistic that you quoted. They are one of us. Turns out there was nothing to be afraid of. As an outside observer, it seems to me like the fears were borne out. WASPs were ousted from power in the country they had created. Irish and Italian immigration got FDR elected, which ultimately resulted in seismic changes to the original constitutional design (rubber stamping of quasi constitutional administrative state, etc). The culture of America also changed. It’s hard to visit NYC and not notice the strong Italian influence in the city. Depending on your taste you might think that’s a good thing or a bad thing. But I bet those 1910s New York WASPs would prefer New Amsterdam to New Sicily.
- mikem170 4y ago
  You have a point, interesting to think about. I assume that WASPs a century ago were saying things like "these immigrants will destroy our way of life, we have to stop them", as opposed to "they'll have a Little Italy neighborhood in NYC, and we can't allow that". Were their fears exaggerated? On purpose? I don't hear many WASPs today complaining that their fears from a century ago came true, nor many who are bothered by Italians at the moment. To the contrary, Italians are now counted as caucasians in the statistics, and there are different out-groups that people blame now for the country's problems and are afraid of. I'd say that WASPs have had to share more power, as opposed to being ousted from power. Changes in transportation, communication, and geopolitics may have led to the administrative state regardless. I don't think that WASPs are being treated worse than other groups. Maybe it's human nature for groups to not want to share, and that's a big part of the problem.
  - rayiner 4y ago
    > assume that WASPs a century ago were saying things like "these immigrants will destroy our way of life, we have to stop them", as opposed to "they'll have a Little Italy neighborhood in NYC, and we can't allow that". Southern Italian immigrants brought their culture to the entire city, and eventually to city administration. It wasn’t just the food. In terms of how people carry themselves, in terms of orderliness, etc., NYC is much more like a Mediterranean city than a British or Dutch city. > I don't hear many WASPs today complaining that their fears from a century ago came true, nor many who are bothered by Italians at the moment. All those people are dead, and the ones there currently have no other reference point. > Maybe it's human nature for groups to not want to share, and that's a big part of the problem. Why do they owe it to anyone else to share what they built?

rayiner 4y ago

> Southern and eastern European immigrants were looked down upon, mistreated and feared as the "others" by white anglo-saxon protestants a century ago, but by 1970 they are part of that 84% white population statistic that you quoted. They are one of us. Turns out there was nothing to be afraid of. As an outside observer, it seems to me like the fears were borne out. WASPs were ousted from power in the country they had created. Irish and Italian immigration got FDR elected, which ultimately resulted in seismic changes to the original constitutional design (rubber stamping of quasi constitutional administrative state, etc). The culture of America also changed. It’s hard to visit NYC and not notice the strong Italian influence in the city. Depending on your taste you might think that’s a good thing or a bad thing. But I bet those 1910s New York WASPs would prefer New Amsterdam to New Sicily.

mikem170 4y ago
You have a point, interesting to think about. I assume that WASPs a century ago were saying things like "these immigrants will destroy our way of life, we have to stop them", as opposed to "they'll have a Little Italy neighborhood in NYC, and we can't allow that". Were their fears exaggerated? On purpose? I don't hear many WASPs today complaining that their fears from a century ago came true, nor many who are bothered by Italians at the moment. To the contrary, Italians are now counted as caucasians in the statistics, and there are different out-groups that people blame now for the country's problems and are afraid of. I'd say that WASPs have had to share more power, as opposed to being ousted from power. Changes in transportation, communication, and geopolitics may have led to the administrative state regardless. I don't think that WASPs are being treated worse than other groups. Maybe it's human nature for groups to not want to share, and that's a big part of the problem.
- rayiner 4y ago
  > assume that WASPs a century ago were saying things like "these immigrants will destroy our way of life, we have to stop them", as opposed to "they'll have a Little Italy neighborhood in NYC, and we can't allow that". Southern Italian immigrants brought their culture to the entire city, and eventually to city administration. It wasn’t just the food. In terms of how people carry themselves, in terms of orderliness, etc., NYC is much more like a Mediterranean city than a British or Dutch city. > I don't hear many WASPs today complaining that their fears from a century ago came true, nor many who are bothered by Italians at the moment. All those people are dead, and the ones there currently have no other reference point. > Maybe it's human nature for groups to not want to share, and that's a big part of the problem. Why do they owe it to anyone else to share what they built?