6 ms·

Why not mention brother Grimm or Arabian Nights that had already been re-written and re-worded beyond recognition

jerkstate 4y ago
I'm pretty sure everybody agrees that Disney's The Little Mermaid or Aladdin (or Willy Wonka) are not faithful representations of the original source material. Editing the book after Roald Dahl is dead and titling it "Mathilda, by Roald Dahl" is something completely different.
parker_mountain 4y ago
Those are intensely poor examples, for a handful of a reasons - Language translations are extremely culturally dependent, and is a known quantity. Modern translations frequently have many translator's notes explaining the decision or edits made. - Modern translations are transparent about their editorializing, there's a marked difference between "accurate" and "lay person" translations. - The source materials were written and translated in times when we, frankly, had lower standards.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
PM_me_your_math 4y ago
What does that have to do with the woke mob vandalizing Dahl's work?
- mbStavola 4y ago
  Where does the "woke mob" come into this? As far as I can tell there hasn't been a public campaign to censor the books. Rather, these changes came from the Dahl Story Company and Penguin Random House, so this is good old fashion capitalism through-and-through. No one asked for a reason to repurchase novels that were already 50+ years old besides the people who own the rights to these books.
  - PM_me_your_math 4y ago
    The only group lurid enough to vandalize the story are the woke zombie cry-bullies. Their campaign is to burn down western culture and replace it with something that closely resembles intellectual gonorrhea.
    - jrmg 4y ago
      Please, try to be civil. It’s really hard for anyone with different views to seriously engage with you when you’re making such an abrasive presentation. Civil discussion is traditionally a value of the western culture you prize so much.
      - PM_me_your_math 4y ago
        Civil like burning down and looting businesses that don't fly a particular flag? ...or pulling the fire alarms at venues when a speaker is presenting something you disagree with? Or civil like destroying timeless stories with emotional garbage and inserting woke ideology into things that have nothing to do with the zealotry? On the contrary, I'm being perfectly civil. Colorful descriptions that profess my disdain for the left's new mind-diarrhea is not even close to incivility. If you don't like my descriptions, then the proper course is to ask yourself why people might take issue with cry-bullies.
        jrmg 4y ago
        I mean, you’re really not being civil by any description of it I’d recognize. Accusing me of being okay with arson? ‘Mind-diarrhea’? Are you at all open to discussion? I’m projecting my own views a lot here, but I am pretty sure you’re not going to be swaying anyone even remotely left of center (most of whom would never engage in the acts you’re listing - and many of whom _are_ uneasy about many of the changes to Dahl’s works that sparked this discussion) in your direction by projecting such an angry, abrasive demeanor. I really worry about the state of online discourse. I’d be willing to bet that if we were to sit down and discuss this over a beverage in real life this isn’t how the discussion would go.
albertopv 4y ago
I read to my 6yo Grimm stories almost like originals ones. I think life is made of both good and bad things, hiding latter won't benefit child growth, you have to explain and give the kid the tools to manage both.
- manuelabeledo 4y ago
  "Almost" is possibly the key word here. How do you explain the horrific violence depicted in many of the Grimm's fairy tales to a kid? And what is the expected benefit of it?
  - Turing_Machine 4y ago
    > How do you explain the horrific violence depicted in many of the Grimm's fairy tales to a kid? I loved that stuff when I was a kid. "Then they made the evil queen put on red-hot iron boots and dance until she died." Kids are a lot more resilient than people like to think.
    - manuelabeledo 4y ago
      I don't doubt that. But I honestly don't know how would I tell my kid that the Sleeping Beauty was a minor raped by a stranger who tripled her age. Nor I think it could provide any "life lesson" to a six year old.
xkcd-sucks 4y ago
Both of these examples are collections of folk tales. Arabian Nights in particular has no authoritative original at all, and there are many variations of the collection in many languages, many of which which are still available today from a variety of publishers. The Brothers Grimm similarly collected and adapted folk tales (and bowdlerized _their own work_ in subsequent editions), but reprints of most of these editions are still available, and versions of tales or collections that were not written by the Grimms are not published under their name. By contrast Dahl stories are original IP with an authoritative source who is now dead and can't revise his own work.
manuelabeledo 4y ago
Pretty much every single fable and tale out there have been rewritten to suit modern tastes. The Sleeping Beauty is raped in her sleep, Little Red Hood fills up the wolf with stones after it has been cut in half to rescue her grandmother, and Cinderella has a confusing relationship with incest.

I'm pretty sure everybody agrees that Disney's The Little Mermaid or Aladdin (or Willy Wonka) are not faithful representations of the original source material. Editing the book after Roald Dahl is dead and titling it "Mathilda, by Roald Dahl" is something completely different.

parker_mountain 4y ago

Those are intensely poor examples, for a handful of a reasons - Language translations are extremely culturally dependent, and is a known quantity. Modern translations frequently have many translator's notes explaining the decision or edits made. - Modern translations are transparent about their editorializing, there's a marked difference between "accurate" and "lay person" translations. - The source materials were written and translated in times when we, frankly, had lower standards.

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]

PM_me_your_math 4y ago

What does that have to do with the woke mob vandalizing Dahl's work?

mbStavola 4y ago
Where does the "woke mob" come into this? As far as I can tell there hasn't been a public campaign to censor the books. Rather, these changes came from the Dahl Story Company and Penguin Random House, so this is good old fashion capitalism through-and-through. No one asked for a reason to repurchase novels that were already 50+ years old besides the people who own the rights to these books.
- PM_me_your_math 4y ago
  The only group lurid enough to vandalize the story are the woke zombie cry-bullies. Their campaign is to burn down western culture and replace it with something that closely resembles intellectual gonorrhea.
  - jrmg 4y ago
    Please, try to be civil. It’s really hard for anyone with different views to seriously engage with you when you’re making such an abrasive presentation. Civil discussion is traditionally a value of the western culture you prize so much.
    - PM_me_your_math 4y ago
      Civil like burning down and looting businesses that don't fly a particular flag? ...or pulling the fire alarms at venues when a speaker is presenting something you disagree with? Or civil like destroying timeless stories with emotional garbage and inserting woke ideology into things that have nothing to do with the zealotry? On the contrary, I'm being perfectly civil. Colorful descriptions that profess my disdain for the left's new mind-diarrhea is not even close to incivility. If you don't like my descriptions, then the proper course is to ask yourself why people might take issue with cry-bullies.
      - jrmg 4y ago
        I mean, you’re really not being civil by any description of it I’d recognize. Accusing me of being okay with arson? ‘Mind-diarrhea’? Are you at all open to discussion? I’m projecting my own views a lot here, but I am pretty sure you’re not going to be swaying anyone even remotely left of center (most of whom would never engage in the acts you’re listing - and many of whom _are_ uneasy about many of the changes to Dahl’s works that sparked this discussion) in your direction by projecting such an angry, abrasive demeanor. I really worry about the state of online discourse. I’d be willing to bet that if we were to sit down and discuss this over a beverage in real life this isn’t how the discussion would go.

albertopv 4y ago

I read to my 6yo Grimm stories almost like originals ones. I think life is made of both good and bad things, hiding latter won't benefit child growth, you have to explain and give the kid the tools to manage both.

manuelabeledo 4y ago
"Almost" is possibly the key word here. How do you explain the horrific violence depicted in many of the Grimm's fairy tales to a kid? And what is the expected benefit of it?
- Turing_Machine 4y ago
  > How do you explain the horrific violence depicted in many of the Grimm's fairy tales to a kid? I loved that stuff when I was a kid. "Then they made the evil queen put on red-hot iron boots and dance until she died." Kids are a lot more resilient than people like to think.
  - manuelabeledo 4y ago
    I don't doubt that. But I honestly don't know how would I tell my kid that the Sleeping Beauty was a minor raped by a stranger who tripled her age. Nor I think it could provide any "life lesson" to a six year old.

xkcd-sucks 4y ago

Both of these examples are collections of folk tales. Arabian Nights in particular has no authoritative original at all, and there are many variations of the collection in many languages, many of which which are still available today from a variety of publishers. The Brothers Grimm similarly collected and adapted folk tales (and bowdlerized _their own work_ in subsequent editions), but reprints of most of these editions are still available, and versions of tales or collections that were not written by the Grimms are not published under their name. By contrast Dahl stories are original IP with an authoritative source who is now dead and can't revise his own work.

manuelabeledo 4y ago

Pretty much every single fable and tale out there have been rewritten to suit modern tastes. The Sleeping Beauty is raped in her sleep, Little Red Hood fills up the wolf with stones after it has been cut in half to rescue her grandmother, and Cinderella has a confusing relationship with incest.