5 ms·

??? By this reasonning nobody should ever learn anything, because it's all 'trivially doable' by machine. Like 'addition' and 'subtraction'. So let's gasligh

by jasmer 4y ago

??? By this reasonning nobody should ever learn anything, because it's all 'trivially doable' by machine. Like 'addition' and 'subtraction'. So let's gaslight those dumb teachers by saying they should make up 'better' homework assignments?

thfuran 4y ago
Intractable and unsolved problems only!
- Spivak 4y ago
  Or just novel applications of the things you learn in class. "Congratulations! You leaned depth-first-search! ^award noises^ Below is the algorithm for reference because memorizing it just for this test is silly. You're working on a real time mapping application called Maply. Locations are represented as nodes and all direct routes between any two nodes are represented by directed weighted edges." a) Write a function that takes a start node, an end node, and a maximum distance to travel and return the shortest path between the two. b) Your boss said that users need to be able to add stops along their journey. Write a function that takes the final path you computed in part a and the new node for the added stop and compute the amended path changing as few of the original legs of the trip as possible (don't want to disorient your users). c) Now your boss is saying you need to handle the situation where users make mistakes. Use the function you wrote in part b to implement this feature.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
  - dinkumthinkum 4y ago
    Novel applications? You mean incremental combinations. You realize finding and solving nontrivial problems is much more complicated task, right? This seems to imply that someone that cannot do simple things can do complicated things, where is the evidence of that? Why do the most complicated mathematics start with basic principles and work up to complex problems? Why don’t they just start with the Collatz Conjecture?
    - Spivak 4y ago
      Call it whatever you want, problems that use/apply the knowledge you just learned to problems that you can’t just Google.
ramesh31 4y ago
>By this reasonning nobody should ever learn anything, because it's all 'trivially doable' by machine. >Like 'addition' and 'subtraction'. A better analogy would be low level coding. I don't know (or care) how my processor calculates `var f = 3+2` at the register level. And being able to ignore that allows me to focus on higher level concerns.
- jasmer 4y ago
  I see what you mean, but it's not really a better analogy. We need to learn how to do addition at some point, so we can't have ChatGPT do that. We need to learn how 'registers' work, so we can't have ChatGPT do that. We need to learn basic algorithms work, so we can't have ChatGPT do that. AKA - almost whatever is being assigned as homework, is the 'thing to be learned' and it's ridiculous to suggest that ChatGPT do that, and doubly so to gaslight teachers.
- sixothree 4y ago
  One of the required classes for CS degree was Assembly Language. Nobody taking or teaching the class pretended there would be a great need for this language in a job setting. But that wasn't the point of this class.
- filchermcurr 4y ago
  The thing is, what applies to you doesn't necessary apply to everybody. Somebody has to understand low level coding. Somebody has to be introduced to it without necessarily knowing going in that it will be a career path. Somebody will need to write compilers and reverse engineer and design CPUs. Just because a skill isn't valuable to you or those you know doesn't mean it isn't valuable to others, especially those who don't know enough yet to know that it might interest them.
- dinkumthinkum 4y ago
  If you don’t know that then you really have a real lack of knowledge of computing. I don’t mean that as an attack or anything but I don’t think it is a badge of honor or anything. You could just as easily say the person typing a Word document doesn’t know what RAM is so we can just stop teaching that foolishness so people can focus on the “complex” things. One could also argue, and many have successfully, that this type of thinking is why software is so much slower than in the 80s and 90s.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
dinkumthinkum 4y ago
I don’t generally like the word “gaslight” as it is normally used by the unsavory but in this case, I think you used it perfectly. That is exactly what people are doing, except for the extremely naive ones. I don’t really know why, though?
- jasmer 4y ago
  Gaslighting is just a term for a social interaction that didn't exist in our vocabulary before. That's it. Which is different than terms like 'woke' for which we have different connotations and contexts.

by jasmer 4y ago

thfuran 4y ago

Intractable and unsolved problems only!

Spivak 4y ago
Or just novel applications of the things you learn in class. "Congratulations! You leaned depth-first-search! ^award noises^ Below is the algorithm for reference because memorizing it just for this test is silly. You're working on a real time mapping application called Maply. Locations are represented as nodes and all direct routes between any two nodes are represented by directed weighted edges." a) Write a function that takes a start node, an end node, and a maximum distance to travel and return the shortest path between the two. b) Your boss said that users need to be able to add stops along their journey. Write a function that takes the final path you computed in part a and the new node for the added stop and compute the amended path changing as few of the original legs of the trip as possible (don't want to disorient your users). c) Now your boss is saying you need to handle the situation where users make mistakes. Use the function you wrote in part b to implement this feature.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- dinkumthinkum 4y ago
  Novel applications? You mean incremental combinations. You realize finding and solving nontrivial problems is much more complicated task, right? This seems to imply that someone that cannot do simple things can do complicated things, where is the evidence of that? Why do the most complicated mathematics start with basic principles and work up to complex problems? Why don’t they just start with the Collatz Conjecture?
  - Spivak 4y ago
    Call it whatever you want, problems that use/apply the knowledge you just learned to problems that you can’t just Google.

ramesh31 4y ago

>By this reasonning nobody should ever learn anything, because it's all 'trivially doable' by machine. >Like 'addition' and 'subtraction'. A better analogy would be low level coding. I don't know (or care) how my processor calculates `var f = 3+2` at the register level. And being able to ignore that allows me to focus on higher level concerns.

jasmer 4y ago
I see what you mean, but it's not really a better analogy. We need to learn how to do addition at some point, so we can't have ChatGPT do that. We need to learn how 'registers' work, so we can't have ChatGPT do that. We need to learn basic algorithms work, so we can't have ChatGPT do that. AKA - almost whatever is being assigned as homework, is the 'thing to be learned' and it's ridiculous to suggest that ChatGPT do that, and doubly so to gaslight teachers.
sixothree 4y ago
One of the required classes for CS degree was Assembly Language. Nobody taking or teaching the class pretended there would be a great need for this language in a job setting. But that wasn't the point of this class.
filchermcurr 4y ago
The thing is, what applies to you doesn't necessary apply to everybody. Somebody has to understand low level coding. Somebody has to be introduced to it without necessarily knowing going in that it will be a career path. Somebody will need to write compilers and reverse engineer and design CPUs. Just because a skill isn't valuable to you or those you know doesn't mean it isn't valuable to others, especially those who don't know enough yet to know that it might interest them.
dinkumthinkum 4y ago
If you don’t know that then you really have a real lack of knowledge of computing. I don’t mean that as an attack or anything but I don’t think it is a badge of honor or anything. You could just as easily say the person typing a Word document doesn’t know what RAM is so we can just stop teaching that foolishness so people can focus on the “complex” things. One could also argue, and many have successfully, that this type of thinking is why software is so much slower than in the 80s and 90s.

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

dinkumthinkum 4y ago

I don’t generally like the word “gaslight” as it is normally used by the unsavory but in this case, I think you used it perfectly. That is exactly what people are doing, except for the extremely naive ones. I don’t really know why, though?

jasmer 4y ago
Gaslighting is just a term for a social interaction that didn't exist in our vocabulary before. That's it. Which is different than terms like 'woke' for which we have different connotations and contexts.