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> It represents an actual cost for an actual activity. It really doesn't. It's been a stealth way to increase your rates for a long time now. > I think AirBnb

> It represents an actual cost for an actual activity. It really doesn't. It's been a stealth way to increase your rates for a long time now. > I think AirBnb should show initial totals with it included, so you're never surprised by it. They do, but it makes comparing rentals (both within AirBnB and across services) a pain in the ass, because it's not factored into the initial rate-per-night that you see and that they sort by if you ask them to show cheapest-first. [EDIT] I glossed over the "should" when reading the parent for this part—whoops. I thought they meant it's included once you're into the actual listing, not on the list-of-listings page, which is already, but which isn't enough. I stand by the first part—cleaning fees rarely represent the "actual cost" of the activity, on US AirBnB.

matsemann 4y ago
It is factored in here in Europe. So the issue isn't the fee itself, but that in other jurisdictions it's hidden.
- yamtaddle 4y ago
  Right, if it's factored in, that's fine. It'd also automatically remove the incentive to pad the cleaning fee, which is so common in the US that I expect it's hard to compete in listings without doing it (without hiding some of your margin in the cleaning fee, that is).
wpietri 4y ago
> > It represents an actual cost for an actual activity. > It really doesn't. It's been a stealth way to increase your rates for a long time now. Two things can be true at once. Cleaning is an actual activity they actually have to do after I leave. There are actual costs. E.g., they might use a service that specializes in vacation rental cleaning: https://cleaningglow.com/san-francisco-services/vacation-rentals/ https://cleaningglow.com/san-francisco-services/vacation-ren... Do some people inflate the fee as a way of increasing your rates? Surely. But that's only a problem when the comparison price doesn't include it, a problem I agree we should solve. I'd just like the fee to also be listed somewhere, as it makes other comparisons easier for some people, me included.
- yamtaddle 4y ago
  It's so common on US airbnb that I expect it's practically necessary to shift some margin to the "cleaning fee" to stay competitive (you'll get out-"bid" by others who have). I objected to "actual cost", not "actual activity". Yes, they clean (usually...). No, it doesn't cost anywhere near what they're charging, unless you left the place such a wreck that you're getting a 1-star guest rating.
  - wpietri 4y ago
    Depends on the Airbnb, I guess. I've definitely looked at places where the cleaning fee struck me as about market price. And I'm much more likely to stay at a place like that as it increases my trust in the host, so maybe the margin-shifting doesn't work for everybody.

matsemann 4y ago

It is factored in here in Europe. So the issue isn't the fee itself, but that in other jurisdictions it's hidden.

yamtaddle 4y ago
Right, if it's factored in, that's fine. It'd also automatically remove the incentive to pad the cleaning fee, which is so common in the US that I expect it's hard to compete in listings without doing it (without hiding some of your margin in the cleaning fee, that is).

wpietri 4y ago

> > It represents an actual cost for an actual activity. > It really doesn't. It's been a stealth way to increase your rates for a long time now. Two things can be true at once. Cleaning is an actual activity they actually have to do after I leave. There are actual costs. E.g., they might use a service that specializes in vacation rental cleaning: https://cleaningglow.com/san-francisco-services/vacation-rentals/ https://cleaningglow.com/san-francisco-services/vacation-ren... Do some people inflate the fee as a way of increasing your rates? Surely. But that's only a problem when the comparison price doesn't include it, a problem I agree we should solve. I'd just like the fee to also be listed somewhere, as it makes other comparisons easier for some people, me included.

yamtaddle 4y ago
It's so common on US airbnb that I expect it's practically necessary to shift some margin to the "cleaning fee" to stay competitive (you'll get out-"bid" by others who have). I objected to "actual cost", not "actual activity". Yes, they clean (usually...). No, it doesn't cost anywhere near what they're charging, unless you left the place such a wreck that you're getting a 1-star guest rating.
- wpietri 4y ago
  Depends on the Airbnb, I guess. I've definitely looked at places where the cleaning fee struck me as about market price. And I'm much more likely to stay at a place like that as it increases my trust in the host, so maybe the margin-shifting doesn't work for everybody.