3 ms·

Ok, show me a single example of this model working for a software business that makes a profit. Just one. I honestly can't find any.

whatshisface 4y ago
My point is that pretty much every business is an example of what a co-op could do, because the differences are small on an operational level. It's an ownership structure, not a management structure.
aaomidi 4y ago
Companies in new areas of technology generally started with a concentration of power and after a while that concentration of power goes away. Every new tech has effectively had this. Anyway our economic model is toxic to cooperative businesses. So yeah it’s gonna be hard to find examples of successful coops.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- twblalock 4y ago
  > Anyway our economic model is toxic to cooperative businesses. I don't really buy that. Our economic model rewards businesses that make money. In tech, you don't even need to make a profit, just having a lot of revenue is enough to get a ton of investment (although that might be changing, and that change is probably good). If a software co-op could succeed as a business, why hasn't that happened?
  - dgb23 4y ago
    One of the tricky things about worker coops is that it’s more difficult to grow fast. You can’t just have outside investors and shareholders pump money into it. Ownership and employment are directly tied together. There are successful software worker coops out there. Usually small and medium. And there are examples of firms that follow the spirit but not the legal structure. Effectively worker owned, but regular corporations on paper. Generally worker coops have been shown to provide more stability/sustainability, worker engagement in many cases. My intuition is that these virtues are less in demand than rapid growth and big exits when it comes to software ventures. Also a big issue might be that this business form is simply less on the radar for people, which can be perceived as risky or off base. But there might be domains and types of projects that would fit very nicely.
  - aaomidi 4y ago
    Models of company ownership don't really extend properly into cooperative companies. Raising funds is neigh impossible. B2B relationships are extremely difficult with cooperative business models due to a lack of understanding (both on law side and just "personal feels" side of things).
superb-owl 4y ago
[flagged]
- pc86 4y ago
  Usually if you're going to go the snarky LMGTFY route, you'd link to the Google SERP for the phrase rather than a GitHub page.
  - reidjs 4y ago
    In his example the G stands for GitHub
landhar 4y ago
Not parent and not arguing that this model is common by any means. But a noteable example is Motion Twin [0]: a game company that had a couple of mainstream hits (most recently Dead Cells). [0] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motion_Twin https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motion_Twin
jamiepenney 4y ago
I'm one of the managing directors for a 3-person software development co-operative. We each made around double the market rate for developers in our country last year, with a small amount left over in the company at the end of the year to invest in new staff and a small side-business the company owns. Loomio[1] is a successful product-based co-operative, and was spun out of another successful co-operative called Enspiral[2]. Enspiral got up to over 200 co-owners before they started splitting off to other companies. This is just looking at New Zealand, which is small and doesn't have a big co-operative sector. I'm sure there are plenty of other examples around the world. 1. https://www.loomio.com/about/ https://www.loomio.com/about/ 2. https://www.enspiral.com/ https://www.enspiral.com/

whatshisface 4y ago

My point is that pretty much every business is an example of what a co-op could do, because the differences are small on an operational level. It's an ownership structure, not a management structure.

aaomidi 4y ago

Companies in new areas of technology generally started with a concentration of power and after a while that concentration of power goes away. Every new tech has effectively had this. Anyway our economic model is toxic to cooperative businesses. So yeah it’s gonna be hard to find examples of successful coops.

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
twblalock 4y ago
> Anyway our economic model is toxic to cooperative businesses. I don't really buy that. Our economic model rewards businesses that make money. In tech, you don't even need to make a profit, just having a lot of revenue is enough to get a ton of investment (although that might be changing, and that change is probably good). If a software co-op could succeed as a business, why hasn't that happened?
- dgb23 4y ago
  One of the tricky things about worker coops is that it’s more difficult to grow fast. You can’t just have outside investors and shareholders pump money into it. Ownership and employment are directly tied together. There are successful software worker coops out there. Usually small and medium. And there are examples of firms that follow the spirit but not the legal structure. Effectively worker owned, but regular corporations on paper. Generally worker coops have been shown to provide more stability/sustainability, worker engagement in many cases. My intuition is that these virtues are less in demand than rapid growth and big exits when it comes to software ventures. Also a big issue might be that this business form is simply less on the radar for people, which can be perceived as risky or off base. But there might be domains and types of projects that would fit very nicely.
- aaomidi 4y ago
  Models of company ownership don't really extend properly into cooperative companies. Raising funds is neigh impossible. B2B relationships are extremely difficult with cooperative business models due to a lack of understanding (both on law side and just "personal feels" side of things).

superb-owl 4y ago

[flagged]

pc86 4y ago
Usually if you're going to go the snarky LMGTFY route, you'd link to the Google SERP for the phrase rather than a GitHub page.
- reidjs 4y ago
  In his example the G stands for GitHub

landhar 4y ago

Not parent and not arguing that this model is common by any means. But a noteable example is Motion Twin [0]: a game company that had a couple of mainstream hits (most recently Dead Cells). [0] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motion_Twin https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motion_Twin

jamiepenney 4y ago

I'm one of the managing directors for a 3-person software development co-operative. We each made around double the market rate for developers in our country last year, with a small amount left over in the company at the end of the year to invest in new staff and a small side-business the company owns. Loomio[1] is a successful product-based co-operative, and was spun out of another successful co-operative called Enspiral[2]. Enspiral got up to over 200 co-owners before they started splitting off to other companies. This is just looking at New Zealand, which is small and doesn't have a big co-operative sector. I'm sure there are plenty of other examples around the world. 1. https://www.loomio.com/about/ https://www.loomio.com/about/ 2. https://www.enspiral.com/ https://www.enspiral.com/