8 ms·

As a foreigner who lived in the USA for a few years, I always thought the US runs in hidden fees. From tipping, to taxes not in the sale price, to insurances n

As a foreigner who lived in the USA for a few years, I always thought the US runs in hidden fees. From tipping, to taxes not in the sale price, to insurances not being able to give a price for a procedure, to hotel fees… I could never actually guess how much anything would cost. Either the wording of the law will have a ton of exclusions per industry.

themitigating 4y ago
"Either the wording of the law will have a ton of exclusions per industry." Even if it does it's better than no law.
- scarface74 4y ago
  A complicated law only helps big business that has the resources to follow it. Look no further than the shit show of the 11 chapter 99 section GDPR.
  - themitigating 4y ago
    Businesses already have the total price for the checkout they can easily display it earlier.
shagie 4y ago
> to taxes not in the sale price This gets complicated and there's good reason. The taxes depend on where you take possession of the goods. If you purchase an item and walk up to the checkout counter, you pay the taxes there. On the other hand, if you are buying lumber in Kansas City, KS to be delivered in Kanas City, MO - you pay the MO taxes (4.225%) rather than the KS taxes (6.5%). So, putting the taxes on the lumber ($3.35) in KS would be $0.22 and if it was to be delivered on the other side of the state line, that would be $0.15. If you were to say "ahh! Lets solve this by having taxes paid for where you buy it instead" then everyone incorporates in Delaware and you get some sizable data centers in Oregon and sell everything online from there... and you've got other problems with states trying to collect sales tax on goods delivered there.
- skaushik92 4y ago
  This is not necessarily a bad thing. This incentivizes states and districts to compete on taxation and would likely drive sales tax down nationally.
  - shagie 4y ago
    As there are states that are 0%, this would mean "no sales tax at all" which would really hit states where they don't have any income tax and instead just have sales tax. Under that approach, live in Texas and buy everything online from Oregon and you'll never pay any taxes. States need to raise revenue somehow and playing that form of tax arbitrage shifts the burden of taxes to the people who don't have the resources to do that.
    - skaushik92 4y ago
      No; in fact sales tax is what’s shifting the burden in that direction. Income tax on the other hand is a progressive tax that keeps impact more proportional.
      - shagie 4y ago
        If you have the resources to declare residency in Texas and pay sales taxes from Oregon you are able to avoid paying most taxes. I am saying that most people don't have the resources to play tax arbitrage. Those that do are the ones that should likely be paying the most taxes. Going to a system were sales taxes go to 0 based on where you buy it (online in Oregon) doesn't mean that states will abandon the sales tax but rather that the tax burden that local governments can collect (sales, property) will go up and disproportionately impact the people who can least afford it. As it is, that approach would be overturning South Dakota vs Wayfair https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_Dakota_v._Wayfair,_Inc https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_Dakota_v._Wayfair,_Inc. --- https://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/17pdf/17-494_j4el.pdf https://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/17pdf/17-494_j4el.pdf Sales tax is regressive and a worse option for taxation. It is, however, one of the few options that local governments have for raising funds. The tax system needs an overhaul (though frankly my confidence in congress not just doing another tax cut for the rich is low). Disrupting sales tax without a corresponding overhaul would likely make things much worse in many of the poorer areas of the nation and those where much of the economy is based on non-residents visiting.
dangwhy 4y ago
> tipping This has gotten ridiculous past 2-3 year. Buy a $3.00 coffee , $1 tip is expected. I hate those ipad type payment consoles.
- rootusrootus 4y ago
  Not only that, but now everyone wants tips for things which never expected it before. Food cart? Tip. Fast food drive-thru? Tip. Heck, my barber now charges $25 for a haircut (which takes all of 15 minutes) and we're expected to tip for that too. Then there are tips that I apparently don't really know about but if I don't, I'm the jerk. I never knew I was supposed to tip the natural gas guy when he comes by to do some service (which is 'free', this is service from the actual gas company on the meter). My neighbor tips the garbage truck driver. If someone put an initiative on the ballot that explicitly banned tipping, I'd vote for it.
  - denton-scratch 4y ago
    > Heck, my barber now charges $25 for a haircut (which takes all of 15 minutes) and we're expected to tip for that too. It's been customary to tip barbers since forever, hasn't it? When I was just 8, my father gave me money to tip the barber. I think the principle is, you tip so that the server remembers you. With haircuts, that can make a difference. My hair is now so thin and wispy that no barber can make it look OK. I cut it very short myself, with electric clippers. I haven't been to a barbers in 8 years.
    - rootusrootus 4y ago
      Yeah I guess I should be more specific. It's not really a barber, I think it's more 'hair stylist' I guess? Just a place that does all kinds of haircuts. No barber pole on the front or anything like that. Rarely get the same stylist twice, and they just pull up my cutting preferences from their computer when I check in. > My hair is now so thin and wispy that no barber can make it look OK. I cut it very short myself, with electric clippers. I haven't been to a barbers in 8 years. Ha! I'm getting there fast. I can still get it cut so it doesn't look terrible, but it quickly grows out and starts to look patchy, and worse, like I'm trying to have some kind of hangover. I'm this ---><--- close to just taking the clippers to it myself and calling it good.

themitigating 4y ago

"Either the wording of the law will have a ton of exclusions per industry." Even if it does it's better than no law.

scarface74 4y ago
A complicated law only helps big business that has the resources to follow it. Look no further than the shit show of the 11 chapter 99 section GDPR.
- themitigating 4y ago
  Businesses already have the total price for the checkout they can easily display it earlier.

shagie 4y ago

> to taxes not in the sale price This gets complicated and there's good reason. The taxes depend on where you take possession of the goods. If you purchase an item and walk up to the checkout counter, you pay the taxes there. On the other hand, if you are buying lumber in Kansas City, KS to be delivered in Kanas City, MO - you pay the MO taxes (4.225%) rather than the KS taxes (6.5%). So, putting the taxes on the lumber ($3.35) in KS would be $0.22 and if it was to be delivered on the other side of the state line, that would be $0.15. If you were to say "ahh! Lets solve this by having taxes paid for where you buy it instead" then everyone incorporates in Delaware and you get some sizable data centers in Oregon and sell everything online from there... and you've got other problems with states trying to collect sales tax on goods delivered there.

skaushik92 4y ago
This is not necessarily a bad thing. This incentivizes states and districts to compete on taxation and would likely drive sales tax down nationally.
- shagie 4y ago
  As there are states that are 0%, this would mean "no sales tax at all" which would really hit states where they don't have any income tax and instead just have sales tax. Under that approach, live in Texas and buy everything online from Oregon and you'll never pay any taxes. States need to raise revenue somehow and playing that form of tax arbitrage shifts the burden of taxes to the people who don't have the resources to do that.
  - skaushik92 4y ago
    No; in fact sales tax is what’s shifting the burden in that direction. Income tax on the other hand is a progressive tax that keeps impact more proportional.
    - shagie 4y ago
      If you have the resources to declare residency in Texas and pay sales taxes from Oregon you are able to avoid paying most taxes. I am saying that most people don't have the resources to play tax arbitrage. Those that do are the ones that should likely be paying the most taxes. Going to a system were sales taxes go to 0 based on where you buy it (online in Oregon) doesn't mean that states will abandon the sales tax but rather that the tax burden that local governments can collect (sales, property) will go up and disproportionately impact the people who can least afford it. As it is, that approach would be overturning South Dakota vs Wayfair https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_Dakota_v._Wayfair,_Inc https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_Dakota_v._Wayfair,_Inc. --- https://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/17pdf/17-494_j4el.pdf https://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/17pdf/17-494_j4el.pdf Sales tax is regressive and a worse option for taxation. It is, however, one of the few options that local governments have for raising funds. The tax system needs an overhaul (though frankly my confidence in congress not just doing another tax cut for the rich is low). Disrupting sales tax without a corresponding overhaul would likely make things much worse in many of the poorer areas of the nation and those where much of the economy is based on non-residents visiting.

dangwhy 4y ago

> tipping This has gotten ridiculous past 2-3 year. Buy a $3.00 coffee , $1 tip is expected. I hate those ipad type payment consoles.

rootusrootus 4y ago
Not only that, but now everyone wants tips for things which never expected it before. Food cart? Tip. Fast food drive-thru? Tip. Heck, my barber now charges $25 for a haircut (which takes all of 15 minutes) and we're expected to tip for that too. Then there are tips that I apparently don't really know about but if I don't, I'm the jerk. I never knew I was supposed to tip the natural gas guy when he comes by to do some service (which is 'free', this is service from the actual gas company on the meter). My neighbor tips the garbage truck driver. If someone put an initiative on the ballot that explicitly banned tipping, I'd vote for it.
- denton-scratch 4y ago
  > Heck, my barber now charges $25 for a haircut (which takes all of 15 minutes) and we're expected to tip for that too. It's been customary to tip barbers since forever, hasn't it? When I was just 8, my father gave me money to tip the barber. I think the principle is, you tip so that the server remembers you. With haircuts, that can make a difference. My hair is now so thin and wispy that no barber can make it look OK. I cut it very short myself, with electric clippers. I haven't been to a barbers in 8 years.
  - rootusrootus 4y ago
    Yeah I guess I should be more specific. It's not really a barber, I think it's more 'hair stylist' I guess? Just a place that does all kinds of haircuts. No barber pole on the front or anything like that. Rarely get the same stylist twice, and they just pull up my cutting preferences from their computer when I check in. > My hair is now so thin and wispy that no barber can make it look OK. I cut it very short myself, with electric clippers. I haven't been to a barbers in 8 years. Ha! I'm getting there fast. I can still get it cut so it doesn't look terrible, but it quickly grows out and starts to look patchy, and worse, like I'm trying to have some kind of hangover. I'm this ---><--- close to just taking the clippers to it myself and calling it good.