7 ms·

Tons of industries affected by this, though hospitality comes to mind as being particularly egregious. "resort fees" you can't get out of where they tell you wh

Tons of industries affected by this, though hospitality comes to mind as being particularly egregious. "resort fees" you can't get out of where they tell you what you're "getting" for those fees, Airbnb service fees, cleaning fees, things that should all be spread across the nightly rate. The feds doing this for airfare was the best thing to happen for consumers shopping for flights. Ideally we would take it further and include restaurant fees post-covid for fair wages when instead they frankly should just be hiking the cost of food and paying their teams properly. Not sure if this bill affects the service industry specifically but the late tacking-on of mandatory fees is getting egregious. --- Edit: I'm staying at an IHG property right now that says I'm getting the following for my $29 amenity fee: • $15 credit for incidentals • "premium" wifi • newspaper access • tablet from the front desk • free Lyft within two miles (this is kinda useful if you're too lazy to walk) • free EV charging • wine reception • business center • gym • free calls within CONUS I used none of these and yet they won't refund the fee.

eclipticplane 4y ago
Those resort fees are the absolute worst for corporate travel. E.g., the budget for a hotel might be $300/night so you get one for $290/night. Then they tack on a $45/night "resort fee" and suddenly you're getting yelled at by accounting for going over your budget. That is, if you even remember to expense it since they charge it to your incidental card ...
- lotsofpulp 4y ago
  I have never been surprised by a resort fee. If I search on Hilton/Marriott/etc websites, the total price shown when making the reservation is always what I am asked to pay. I believe the resort fee is listed separately so that the hotel owner can reduce the amount of royalties paid to the hotel brand, since they get a 10% to 15% cut of revenue for accommodation charges, but presumably not for things like resort fees and whatnot.
  - ketralnis 4y ago
    Congrats. I have. Anecdote fight!
    - lotsofpulp 4y ago
      The point is, presumably, the websites of major hotel brands work the same for everyone. I would be interested in seeing an example of a “hidden” fee at a hotel. Same with airline prices. Google flight search has always shown me the total price, as have the airline websites themselves.
      - jplona 4y ago
        My experience is the same as yours. However I think these fees are still hidden in the sense that they're not part of the rate that's advertised everywhere, shown in the thumbnail on the hotel website, etc. It would be better if we could just trust that the advertised price would be the actual price.
        lotsofpulp 4y ago
        I agree, the total average per night cost should be displayed in the same price on the initial search results.
      - astura 4y ago
        >I would be interested in seeing an example of a “hidden” fee at a hotel. Every single hotel room on the Vegas strip has a resort fee, for example. Try it yourself - when searching websites will list, say $50/night but when you actually go book it you'll see an additional significant "resort fee" on top of that. It makes it hard to compare prices - you will have to go to the checkout page to see what you'd actually pay. Airlines have been required to list all mandatory fees in their prices since Jan. 26, 2012, by federal law.
        lotsofpulp 4y ago
        I would not call that hidden, but rather obfuscated prices. Although, legislation to make pricing clearer and easier to compare is always welcome.
- nexus7556 4y ago
  At Marriott they don’t charge resort fees for corporate rates.
wpietri 4y ago
I agree with you on almost all of this, but I think the cleaning fee is different. It represents an actual cost for an actual activity. I think AirBnb should show initial totals with it included, so you're never surprised by it. But it shouldn't be rolled up into the nightly rate because it really is a one-off. As an example, right now I'm looking at doing an extended trip, on the order of 2-4 weeks. I just need one cleaning at the end. If they inflate the daily rate to cover cleaning, I'll end up paying a lot more than the average weekender trip. Or if they hide it in a variable price, then I'll have a hard time comparing different lengths of stays across different places.
- paxys 4y ago
  The point isn't that it isn't a real fee (it may or may not be), but that it isn't advertised up front.
- NegativeK 4y ago
  A company can throw whatever fees they want at me as long as it's in the up front cost.
- eganist 4y ago
  > I think AirBnb should show initial totals with it included, so you're never surprised by it. But it shouldn't be rolled up into the nightly rate because it really is a one-off. I disagree with this, and it's easily handled on the backend too. If the cleaning fee is e.g once per trip or once every few days, smear that cost across the cost of the stay for your effective nightly rate. Frankly, how much it costs to clean a unit shouldn't be a separate calculus when comparing rooms. What ultimately matters is how much I'm out of pocket by the end of the trip, and that's most easily compared by showing the customer the effective nightly rate for the date range being searched. Do the breakdown later, sure, but the effective nightly rate is what should be shown first. Or even just the total for the stay, but no weirdness with fees where those fees can be smeared. Last tidbit: cleaning fees are another profit vehicle for Airbnb sellers; rarely is the fee the same as what the seller is paying the cleaning service.
  - 4y ago
yamtaddle 4y ago
We need something for pricing dishes differently based on pick-up or delivery. Stop hiding the actual cost of delivery in the prices of the dishes! You shouldn't have to look at two different menus to figure out how much delivery costs.
newhotelowner 4y ago
The main reason for the resort fee is the 3rd party booking. 3rd party charges 14-18% commission, and a lot of big hotel uses resort fee to reduce the commission. I just wish the big brand uses the power like airlines (3% commission) and negotiate the commission down to 3%.
amluto 4y ago
> cleaning fees, things that should all be spread across the nightly rate. The thing is, cleaning genuinely costs a bunch when a guest departs. It’s a per-stay cost. This doesn’t mean it’s reasonable to hide it. Having a rate structure that has a nightly rate plus a per-visit rate or, equivalently, a first-night rate and an additional-night rate is just fine as long as it’s advertised. And a search for a stay of a given duration should show the all-in price.
- Rebelgecko 4y ago
  I'm OK with the concept of cleaning fees as long as a) when I search for a place to stay for x nights, the cleaning fee should be amortized into the nightly rate (protip- Airbnb's website will do so if it thinks you're in Australia) b) I don't have to do chores. It's super irritating to pay a $300 cleaning fee, then check in and see that the host expects me to to wash the sheets, do the dishes, take out the trash, sweep the patio, and water the plants.
- nottorp 4y ago
  > The thing is, cleaning genuinely costs a bunch when a guest departs. It’s a per-stay cost. And how can hotels magically factor it in the room cost? Ok maybe not in the US.
- rlpb 4y ago
  > just fine as long as it’s advertised I completely agree, but would like to make the observation that if they're forced to advertise it properly, then something different is likely to happen. Businesses like to find places to give "discounts" to make their prices seem cheaper. This is an excellent opportunity. They would list a nightly rate, and offer discounts for multiple night stays.
jobu 4y ago
> The feds doing this for airfare was the best thing to happen for consumers shopping for flights. They need to redo it for airfare, because the airlines have figured out how to workaround it by splitting out things that used to be included (seat assignment, baggage, etc). Some airlines now have sliding rates for bags and so you have to know the exact flight to get the price for checked or carry-on bags. Even if it's split out from the total, all of those *potential* fees should be available up-front as well.
danudey 4y ago
I remember ages ago, Canadians were getting ads for airfare that was like $67 return to Las Vegas/Cuba/London, and then you get the total and it's "+ $550 in taxes, service fees, fuel surcharges, airport improvement fees" etc. All my friends found it pretty hilarious; there's such a thing as marking up a sale once the consumer is invested, but when the actual cost is several times more than the advertised price it's a lot easier to say nope, no thanks.

eclipticplane 4y ago

Those resort fees are the absolute worst for corporate travel. E.g., the budget for a hotel might be $300/night so you get one for $290/night. Then they tack on a $45/night "resort fee" and suddenly you're getting yelled at by accounting for going over your budget. That is, if you even remember to expense it since they charge it to your incidental card ...

lotsofpulp 4y ago
I have never been surprised by a resort fee. If I search on Hilton/Marriott/etc websites, the total price shown when making the reservation is always what I am asked to pay. I believe the resort fee is listed separately so that the hotel owner can reduce the amount of royalties paid to the hotel brand, since they get a 10% to 15% cut of revenue for accommodation charges, but presumably not for things like resort fees and whatnot.
- ketralnis 4y ago
  Congrats. I have. Anecdote fight!
  - lotsofpulp 4y ago
    The point is, presumably, the websites of major hotel brands work the same for everyone. I would be interested in seeing an example of a “hidden” fee at a hotel. Same with airline prices. Google flight search has always shown me the total price, as have the airline websites themselves.
    - jplona 4y ago
      My experience is the same as yours. However I think these fees are still hidden in the sense that they're not part of the rate that's advertised everywhere, shown in the thumbnail on the hotel website, etc. It would be better if we could just trust that the advertised price would be the actual price.
      - lotsofpulp 4y ago
        I agree, the total average per night cost should be displayed in the same price on the initial search results.
    - astura 4y ago
      >I would be interested in seeing an example of a “hidden” fee at a hotel. Every single hotel room on the Vegas strip has a resort fee, for example. Try it yourself - when searching websites will list, say $50/night but when you actually go book it you'll see an additional significant "resort fee" on top of that. It makes it hard to compare prices - you will have to go to the checkout page to see what you'd actually pay. Airlines have been required to list all mandatory fees in their prices since Jan. 26, 2012, by federal law.
      - lotsofpulp 4y ago
        I would not call that hidden, but rather obfuscated prices. Although, legislation to make pricing clearer and easier to compare is always welcome.
nexus7556 4y ago
At Marriott they don’t charge resort fees for corporate rates.

wpietri 4y ago

I agree with you on almost all of this, but I think the cleaning fee is different. It represents an actual cost for an actual activity. I think AirBnb should show initial totals with it included, so you're never surprised by it. But it shouldn't be rolled up into the nightly rate because it really is a one-off. As an example, right now I'm looking at doing an extended trip, on the order of 2-4 weeks. I just need one cleaning at the end. If they inflate the daily rate to cover cleaning, I'll end up paying a lot more than the average weekender trip. Or if they hide it in a variable price, then I'll have a hard time comparing different lengths of stays across different places.

paxys 4y ago
The point isn't that it isn't a real fee (it may or may not be), but that it isn't advertised up front.
NegativeK 4y ago
A company can throw whatever fees they want at me as long as it's in the up front cost.
eganist 4y ago
> I think AirBnb should show initial totals with it included, so you're never surprised by it. But it shouldn't be rolled up into the nightly rate because it really is a one-off. I disagree with this, and it's easily handled on the backend too. If the cleaning fee is e.g once per trip or once every few days, smear that cost across the cost of the stay for your effective nightly rate. Frankly, how much it costs to clean a unit shouldn't be a separate calculus when comparing rooms. What ultimately matters is how much I'm out of pocket by the end of the trip, and that's most easily compared by showing the customer the effective nightly rate for the date range being searched. Do the breakdown later, sure, but the effective nightly rate is what should be shown first. Or even just the total for the stay, but no weirdness with fees where those fees can be smeared. Last tidbit: cleaning fees are another profit vehicle for Airbnb sellers; rarely is the fee the same as what the seller is paying the cleaning service.
- 4y ago

yamtaddle 4y ago

We need something for pricing dishes differently based on pick-up or delivery. Stop hiding the actual cost of delivery in the prices of the dishes! You shouldn't have to look at two different menus to figure out how much delivery costs.

newhotelowner 4y ago

The main reason for the resort fee is the 3rd party booking. 3rd party charges 14-18% commission, and a lot of big hotel uses resort fee to reduce the commission. I just wish the big brand uses the power like airlines (3% commission) and negotiate the commission down to 3%.

amluto 4y ago

> cleaning fees, things that should all be spread across the nightly rate. The thing is, cleaning genuinely costs a bunch when a guest departs. It’s a per-stay cost. This doesn’t mean it’s reasonable to hide it. Having a rate structure that has a nightly rate plus a per-visit rate or, equivalently, a first-night rate and an additional-night rate is just fine as long as it’s advertised. And a search for a stay of a given duration should show the all-in price.

Rebelgecko 4y ago
I'm OK with the concept of cleaning fees as long as a) when I search for a place to stay for x nights, the cleaning fee should be amortized into the nightly rate (protip- Airbnb's website will do so if it thinks you're in Australia) b) I don't have to do chores. It's super irritating to pay a $300 cleaning fee, then check in and see that the host expects me to to wash the sheets, do the dishes, take out the trash, sweep the patio, and water the plants.
nottorp 4y ago
> The thing is, cleaning genuinely costs a bunch when a guest departs. It’s a per-stay cost. And how can hotels magically factor it in the room cost? Ok maybe not in the US.
rlpb 4y ago
> just fine as long as it’s advertised I completely agree, but would like to make the observation that if they're forced to advertise it properly, then something different is likely to happen. Businesses like to find places to give "discounts" to make their prices seem cheaper. This is an excellent opportunity. They would list a nightly rate, and offer discounts for multiple night stays.

jobu 4y ago

> The feds doing this for airfare was the best thing to happen for consumers shopping for flights. They need to redo it for airfare, because the airlines have figured out how to workaround it by splitting out things that used to be included (seat assignment, baggage, etc). Some airlines now have sliding rates for bags and so you have to know the exact flight to get the price for checked or carry-on bags. Even if it's split out from the total, all of those *potential* fees should be available up-front as well.

danudey 4y ago

I remember ages ago, Canadians were getting ads for airfare that was like $67 return to Las Vegas/Cuba/London, and then you get the total and it's "+ $550 in taxes, service fees, fuel surcharges, airport improvement fees" etc. All my friends found it pretty hilarious; there's such a thing as marking up a sale once the consumer is invested, but when the actual cost is several times more than the advertised price it's a lot easier to say nope, no thanks.