5 ms·

> Its simple geography. Suburban and rural areas are living in greater squalor than anyone would care to admit. Hence the tapeworms. Would be nice to present a

by tdeck 4y ago

> Its simple geography. Suburban and rural areas are living in greater squalor than anyone would care to admit. Hence the tapeworms. Would be nice to present any evidence at all for this claim. The vice article that parent post linked to doesn't talk about tapeworms or about area geography. Why would people in suburban areas be so much more at risk for tapeworms than people in urban areas? This feels like the height of motivated reasoning.

baseballdork 4y ago
Also, wouldn't we expect to see this in these studies?
- yieldcrv 4y ago
  because that only appears if that's what was studied. which it wasn't. this study and many others aren't checking patients to see if Ivermectin is by coincidence being used for what it was approved for - tapeworm treatment. they are doing studies on people with covid.
  - baseballdork 4y ago
    > because that only appears if that's what was studied. Why would that be the case? If there's a statistically significant portion of the population suffering from parasites and this treatment improves outcomes for those people in a statistically significant way, then why isn't that going to show up in a study looking for improvement of outcomes?
    - yieldcrv 4y ago
      Because they still never tested us they had tapeworms This hypothesis is guessing that this distribution of the population did and that’s why they are convinced they are seeing such positive correlations when using Ivermectin after a Covid ailment. Supporting aspects are that Covid affected a broad enough population for the tapeworm statistics to map 1:1 with a population, and that many severe covid cases and deaths were exacerbated by opportunistic infections. So we have to look for what the opportunistic infections could be? How strange that a horse dewormer happens to work moderately okay in those regions.
      - baseballdork 4y ago
        I'm not following. What this study shows is that ivermectin doesn't improve COVID outcomes (regardless of parasite status). This means that either the study wasn't sufficiently random over the 1,000 participants and somehow underrepresented those suffering from parasites OR that it was adequate and that either ivermectin doesn't change the outcome for those suffering parasites or those suffering parasites aren't a significant portion of the population. If you think it's the former, then you ought to point out whatever they messed up in their methodology, but if it's the latter, then it debunks your whole concept. In order for your hypothesis (which I believe is that there are a lot of people with parasites AND ivermectin helps them with COVID by killing those parasites) to be true, we'd have to see improvement in recovery to _some_ degree in this study.
yieldcrv 4y ago
> Why would people in suburban areas be so much more at risk for tapeworms than people in urban areas? in my priority of variables, I think the greater point is that people in urban areas were not using Ivermectin to compare efficacy, simply because treatment preferences went along party lines. if they too had tapeworms and also wanted Ivermectin for severe covid treatment, it would have killed the tapeworms and more people would have recovered from severe covid on their own there too. If vice or the researchers cited aren't doing a study on tapeworms then it wouldn't come up. If you need something to cite, it doesn't exist. That's how hypothesis work. The utility of pointing it out then is for someone to be motivated into looking at it this way, it is folly to assume that these respected institutions ruled it out.
giardini 4y ago
Forget the "squalor" idea - it is wrong. It's common to get worms and such infestations even help a child's immune system develop. But, and esp. if you live in the South, one should check each child every year at least (stool sample, please) for parasites. Tapeworm infections are rare. They are caused by eating tapeworm eggs in improperly prepared foods. But tapeworm infections aren't nearly as common as roundworm/hookworm infections. And while ivermectin isn't effective in treating tapeworm it kills roundworms and hookworms and other parasites - see "Ivermectin: enigmatic multifaceted ‘wonder’ drug continues to surprise and exceed expectations" at https://www.nature.com/articles/ja201711 https://www.nature.com/articles/ja201711 Children and adults get hookworms from walking barefoot: a hookworm can penetrate the skin of the foot. There are roundworms in the soil, so children and adults outside often ingest roundworms (put hands in their mouth) or step on hookworms. The natural environment is filled with such parasites. Children and adults in suburban areas usually encounter a wider variety of animals and parasites in their environment than do people in the city.

by tdeck 4y ago

baseballdork 4y ago

Also, wouldn't we expect to see this in these studies?

yieldcrv 4y ago
because that only appears if that's what was studied. which it wasn't. this study and many others aren't checking patients to see if Ivermectin is by coincidence being used for what it was approved for - tapeworm treatment. they are doing studies on people with covid.
- baseballdork 4y ago
  > because that only appears if that's what was studied. Why would that be the case? If there's a statistically significant portion of the population suffering from parasites and this treatment improves outcomes for those people in a statistically significant way, then why isn't that going to show up in a study looking for improvement of outcomes?
  - yieldcrv 4y ago
    Because they still never tested us they had tapeworms This hypothesis is guessing that this distribution of the population did and that’s why they are convinced they are seeing such positive correlations when using Ivermectin after a Covid ailment. Supporting aspects are that Covid affected a broad enough population for the tapeworm statistics to map 1:1 with a population, and that many severe covid cases and deaths were exacerbated by opportunistic infections. So we have to look for what the opportunistic infections could be? How strange that a horse dewormer happens to work moderately okay in those regions.
    - baseballdork 4y ago
      I'm not following. What this study shows is that ivermectin doesn't improve COVID outcomes (regardless of parasite status). This means that either the study wasn't sufficiently random over the 1,000 participants and somehow underrepresented those suffering from parasites OR that it was adequate and that either ivermectin doesn't change the outcome for those suffering parasites or those suffering parasites aren't a significant portion of the population. If you think it's the former, then you ought to point out whatever they messed up in their methodology, but if it's the latter, then it debunks your whole concept. In order for your hypothesis (which I believe is that there are a lot of people with parasites AND ivermectin helps them with COVID by killing those parasites) to be true, we'd have to see improvement in recovery to _some_ degree in this study.

yieldcrv 4y ago

> Why would people in suburban areas be so much more at risk for tapeworms than people in urban areas? in my priority of variables, I think the greater point is that people in urban areas were not using Ivermectin to compare efficacy, simply because treatment preferences went along party lines. if they too had tapeworms and also wanted Ivermectin for severe covid treatment, it would have killed the tapeworms and more people would have recovered from severe covid on their own there too. If vice or the researchers cited aren't doing a study on tapeworms then it wouldn't come up. If you need something to cite, it doesn't exist. That's how hypothesis work. The utility of pointing it out then is for someone to be motivated into looking at it this way, it is folly to assume that these respected institutions ruled it out.

giardini 4y ago

Forget the "squalor" idea - it is wrong. It's common to get worms and such infestations even help a child's immune system develop. But, and esp. if you live in the South, one should check each child every year at least (stool sample, please) for parasites. Tapeworm infections are rare. They are caused by eating tapeworm eggs in improperly prepared foods. But tapeworm infections aren't nearly as common as roundworm/hookworm infections. And while ivermectin isn't effective in treating tapeworm it kills roundworms and hookworms and other parasites - see "Ivermectin: enigmatic multifaceted ‘wonder’ drug continues to surprise and exceed expectations" at https://www.nature.com/articles/ja201711 https://www.nature.com/articles/ja201711 Children and adults get hookworms from walking barefoot: a hookworm can penetrate the skin of the foot. There are roundworms in the soil, so children and adults outside often ingest roundworms (put hands in their mouth) or step on hookworms. The natural environment is filled with such parasites. Children and adults in suburban areas usually encounter a wider variety of animals and parasites in their environment than do people in the city.