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> “We were gobsmacked by what we found. It turns out there are fewer earlier retired today than at the start of the pandemic. You wouldn’t believe that from min

> “We were gobsmacked by what we found. It turns out there are fewer earlier retired today than at the start of the pandemic. You wouldn’t believe that from ministers’ speeches and talk of getting people back off the golf course,” It turns out that government ministers dont have the faintest idea of what they are talking about, except what their base wants to think so they can virtue signalling the correct message - which seems somewhat dangerous when they are setting the policy. If you want more "growth" getting a young person into (meaningful) work would generate more short term growth and vastly more long term growth.

sbuk 4y ago
The only growth Tories want is in their own bank accounts. They certainly don’t care about young people. Then they don’t really care about old people either, it’s just that they are still gullible enough to believe what they and the Murdoch media tells them to.
- ta1243 4y ago
  Old people read the Mail and Express, not Murdoch media.
  - stuaxo 4y ago
    The messaging there is broadly the same.
  - shapefrog 4y ago
    Who reads the papers? Yes, Prime Minister - https://youtu.be/DGscoaUWW2M https://youtu.be/DGscoaUWW2M
  - Oxidation 4y ago
    Some old people definitely read the Times. Source: all the old people I'm related to who don't read the Telegraph which is even worse.
ta1243 4y ago
If you want growth stop draining nearly over half your take home pay in rent and council tax. Relatively high income people can cope with increasing bills, rent, and food, but that means they aren't spending money at the pub or whatever, reducing economic activity. Those with lower incomes can't even afford food.
- shapefrog 4y ago
  The problem in the UK is less that everything is expensive, but that nearly everyone is poor. Inequality really appears to be going rapidly the wrong way.
  - ta1243 4y ago
    The problem is the decimation of the middle earners, the ones that drive the service economy. More and more of their income (especially in London) is taken by rent and bills. Lower earners have had massive payrises - 24% in real terms since 2010. Median earners are up just 2.8% in real terms since 2010 From 2010 to 2023 Minimum wage has risen 76% House prices have risen 76% State Pension is up 52% Median earnings is up 45% CPIH inflation is up 41% NHS Band 7 salaries (41-47k) are up 37%
- ctrwu2843 4y ago
  isn't that what liz truss tried and got fired over? not convinced more neo-liberalism is the answer. It's the economical equivalent of "beer got me into this mess, so it can damn well get me out of it"
  - ben_w 4y ago
    Was it? I get she had (and still has) a total lack of awareness of… well, anything… but I thought the problem was that that (income) tax cuts she announced weren't connected properly to the expenses in the same budget and the international markets (and IMF!) said "you can't afford this level of borrowing". Neither rent control, for all its long term issues, nor utility bill limits were something I remember being brought up. Council tax in particular, I think isn't done by central government? Although it probably should be, given how messed up local council funding seems to be.
rsynnott 4y ago
> except what their base wants to think so they can virtue signalling the correct message So, this is a bit of an odd case where they're kind of _blaming_ their base; it is hard to think of a demographic in England more likely to be a Tory voter than an early retired person. Of course, they're doing this because telling early retired people to go back to work, while highly unlikely to be at all effective, is at least quite cheap, whereas dealing with chronic illness would involve fixing the NHS, which would be terrifyingly expensive. Also, if you're the Tories, the very last thing you want to do is to draw people's attention to the state of the NHS. They've been in government for _13 years_; it's very much on them.
- shapefrog 4y ago
  In a speech to a room of over 50s the quantity of early retired person is near enough to 0. Messaging that the kidz and the early retired (aka someone else) need to do their bit for the country will make the 99% of people in the audience that are employed and working hard feel like the true patriots trying to save the country from the forces of evil that they are.
michaelt 4y ago
> If you want more "growth" getting a young person into (meaningful) work would generate more short term growth and vastly more long term growth. Doubling university places for medicine would be a very sensible move - but it'll take ~7 years before all the new medics are ready to practice. That's two elections in the future. On the other hand, if you can tempt a retired doctor back into practice? They'll be treating people before the next election starts. Of course, I doubt it'll work - wasn't the retired-doctors silver bullet already fired, during the pandemic?
- pkaye 4y ago
  I've heard their pension system penalizes older doctors with more taxes once they accumulate enough years so its better to retire at that point. The other thing is junior doctors can't progress forward in their training and career as there is limited training slots for specialization. So they end up logjammed being in the low rung doing scutwork at little pay. Also doctors pay has not kept up with inflation for the last decade. Right now what they really want is full pay restoration but the government isn't budging. There is a Reddit subreddit where UK jr doctors chat about this stuff and its very enlightening.
  - clocot 4y ago
    [dead]

sbuk 4y ago

The only growth Tories want is in their own bank accounts. They certainly don’t care about young people. Then they don’t really care about old people either, it’s just that they are still gullible enough to believe what they and the Murdoch media tells them to.

ta1243 4y ago
Old people read the Mail and Express, not Murdoch media.
- stuaxo 4y ago
  The messaging there is broadly the same.
- shapefrog 4y ago
  Who reads the papers? Yes, Prime Minister - https://youtu.be/DGscoaUWW2M https://youtu.be/DGscoaUWW2M
- Oxidation 4y ago
  Some old people definitely read the Times. Source: all the old people I'm related to who don't read the Telegraph which is even worse.

ta1243 4y ago

If you want growth stop draining nearly over half your take home pay in rent and council tax. Relatively high income people can cope with increasing bills, rent, and food, but that means they aren't spending money at the pub or whatever, reducing economic activity. Those with lower incomes can't even afford food.

shapefrog 4y ago
The problem in the UK is less that everything is expensive, but that nearly everyone is poor. Inequality really appears to be going rapidly the wrong way.
- ta1243 4y ago
  The problem is the decimation of the middle earners, the ones that drive the service economy. More and more of their income (especially in London) is taken by rent and bills. Lower earners have had massive payrises - 24% in real terms since 2010. Median earners are up just 2.8% in real terms since 2010 From 2010 to 2023 Minimum wage has risen 76% House prices have risen 76% State Pension is up 52% Median earnings is up 45% CPIH inflation is up 41% NHS Band 7 salaries (41-47k) are up 37%
ctrwu2843 4y ago
isn't that what liz truss tried and got fired over? not convinced more neo-liberalism is the answer. It's the economical equivalent of "beer got me into this mess, so it can damn well get me out of it"
- ben_w 4y ago
  Was it? I get she had (and still has) a total lack of awareness of… well, anything… but I thought the problem was that that (income) tax cuts she announced weren't connected properly to the expenses in the same budget and the international markets (and IMF!) said "you can't afford this level of borrowing". Neither rent control, for all its long term issues, nor utility bill limits were something I remember being brought up. Council tax in particular, I think isn't done by central government? Although it probably should be, given how messed up local council funding seems to be.

rsynnott 4y ago

> except what their base wants to think so they can virtue signalling the correct message So, this is a bit of an odd case where they're kind of _blaming_ their base; it is hard to think of a demographic in England more likely to be a Tory voter than an early retired person. Of course, they're doing this because telling early retired people to go back to work, while highly unlikely to be at all effective, is at least quite cheap, whereas dealing with chronic illness would involve fixing the NHS, which would be terrifyingly expensive. Also, if you're the Tories, the very last thing you want to do is to draw people's attention to the state of the NHS. They've been in government for _13 years_; it's very much on them.

shapefrog 4y ago
In a speech to a room of over 50s the quantity of early retired person is near enough to 0. Messaging that the kidz and the early retired (aka someone else) need to do their bit for the country will make the 99% of people in the audience that are employed and working hard feel like the true patriots trying to save the country from the forces of evil that they are.

michaelt 4y ago

> If you want more "growth" getting a young person into (meaningful) work would generate more short term growth and vastly more long term growth. Doubling university places for medicine would be a very sensible move - but it'll take ~7 years before all the new medics are ready to practice. That's two elections in the future. On the other hand, if you can tempt a retired doctor back into practice? They'll be treating people before the next election starts. Of course, I doubt it'll work - wasn't the retired-doctors silver bullet already fired, during the pandemic?

pkaye 4y ago
I've heard their pension system penalizes older doctors with more taxes once they accumulate enough years so its better to retire at that point. The other thing is junior doctors can't progress forward in their training and career as there is limited training slots for specialization. So they end up logjammed being in the low rung doing scutwork at little pay. Also doctors pay has not kept up with inflation for the last decade. Right now what they really want is full pay restoration but the government isn't budging. There is a Reddit subreddit where UK jr doctors chat about this stuff and its very enlightening.
- clocot 4y ago
  [dead]