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If people have genuine use cases (or even simply have a preferred remembered experience experience for how something complicated works like an elderly person) I

If people have genuine use cases (or even simply have a preferred remembered experience experience for how something complicated works like an elderly person) I see no reason why they "should" upgrade, and why instead we shouldn't at least try to provide those users a mediocre amount of support. For the average Grandma who just wants to use Hotmail and Facebook, learning Edge is actually a monumental undertaking

PreInternet01 4y ago
A genuine use case for IE11 on Windows Server platforms, which is what I was talking about, would mostly be 'masochism and a penchant for malware'. If your average grandparent runs Windows Server, learning a new browser every now and then would be the least of their problems, IMHO.
- dylan604 4y ago
  Aren't we getting close to where somebody reading this forum has quite tech savvy grandparents yet? When will this "someone's grandparent" trope just retire too?
tenebrisalietum 4y ago
No. IE needs to be renamed "ActiveX Web App Engine" and no longer be associated with the concept of an Internet browser. Grandma can get an old iPad for Hotmail and Facebook, which is far safer, far less needing of support and what most people are using for those types of things anyway.
- PreInternet01 4y ago
  > IE needs to be renamed "ActiveX Web App Engine" Which is effectively what Edge does. It redirects all IE11 COM endpoints to WebView2, which is Chrome-based and should Work Just Fine for the foreseeable future.
HideousKojima 4y ago
For the elderly, this is why: https://www.cvedetails.com/vulnerability-list/vendor_id-26/product_id-9900/version_id-508525/Microsoft-Internet-Explorer-11.html https://www.cvedetails.com/vulnerability-list/vendor_id-26/p... I'd much rather Grandma have to learn to do something slightly differently than to hear about how Grandma had her bank account information stolen by some JavaScript malware. For those with genuine use cases (I.e. ancient software that doesn't even work with the compatibility shims) I agree that there should be some way to run IE11 and older (and with only themselves to blame if they get pwned by ignoring the risks).
- mulmen 4y ago
  > I'd much rather Grandma have to learn to do something slightly differently This attitude is responsible for more harm than any other single idea in software development. Do not break your users. You think you have a choice here but what really happens is Grandma stays on old software forever because the beatings have taught her to never update anything. And the really sad part is that she's right.
  - Gigachad 4y ago
    Grandma just buys the iPad because it just works and stays up to date without risk of malware while Windows is left a rotting mess of garbage because they are too afraid to change anything.
    - mulmen 4y ago
      Most iOS updates are invisible. The ones that aren’t cause some consternation. My parents were both thrilled when I showed them how to put the address bar back at the top of Safari.
zdragnar 4y ago
Assuming Grandma is passably familiar with IE11 already for Facebook and Hotmail, I doubt the switch to edge is "monumental". The most important items are all pretty close to their old positions. Odds are she is going to Yahoo to search for Hotmail or Facebook anyway.
jabroni_salad 4y ago
On my grandmother's computer I did the "install this site as an app" function for the sites she uses and they open up in frameless windows. The only browser controls available to her are back and refresh. Highly recommend.
- dylan604 4y ago
  Does this work with back button high jacking that is so common?
michaelcampbell 4y ago
> For the average Grandma who just wants to use Hotmail and Facebook, learning Edge is actually a monumental undertaking I don't know what value of "grandma" is subject to being averaged, but this feels needlessly hyperbolic.

PreInternet01 4y ago

A genuine use case for IE11 on Windows Server platforms, which is what I was talking about, would mostly be 'masochism and a penchant for malware'. If your average grandparent runs Windows Server, learning a new browser every now and then would be the least of their problems, IMHO.

dylan604 4y ago
Aren't we getting close to where somebody reading this forum has quite tech savvy grandparents yet? When will this "someone's grandparent" trope just retire too?

tenebrisalietum 4y ago

No. IE needs to be renamed "ActiveX Web App Engine" and no longer be associated with the concept of an Internet browser. Grandma can get an old iPad for Hotmail and Facebook, which is far safer, far less needing of support and what most people are using for those types of things anyway.

PreInternet01 4y ago
> IE needs to be renamed "ActiveX Web App Engine" Which is effectively what Edge does. It redirects all IE11 COM endpoints to WebView2, which is Chrome-based and should Work Just Fine for the foreseeable future.

HideousKojima 4y ago

For the elderly, this is why: https://www.cvedetails.com/vulnerability-list/vendor_id-26/product_id-9900/version_id-508525/Microsoft-Internet-Explorer-11.html https://www.cvedetails.com/vulnerability-list/vendor_id-26/p... I'd much rather Grandma have to learn to do something slightly differently than to hear about how Grandma had her bank account information stolen by some JavaScript malware. For those with genuine use cases (I.e. ancient software that doesn't even work with the compatibility shims) I agree that there should be some way to run IE11 and older (and with only themselves to blame if they get pwned by ignoring the risks).

mulmen 4y ago
> I'd much rather Grandma have to learn to do something slightly differently This attitude is responsible for more harm than any other single idea in software development. Do not break your users. You think you have a choice here but what really happens is Grandma stays on old software forever because the beatings have taught her to never update anything. And the really sad part is that she's right.
- Gigachad 4y ago
  Grandma just buys the iPad because it just works and stays up to date without risk of malware while Windows is left a rotting mess of garbage because they are too afraid to change anything.
  - mulmen 4y ago
    Most iOS updates are invisible. The ones that aren’t cause some consternation. My parents were both thrilled when I showed them how to put the address bar back at the top of Safari.

zdragnar 4y ago

Assuming Grandma is passably familiar with IE11 already for Facebook and Hotmail, I doubt the switch to edge is "monumental". The most important items are all pretty close to their old positions. Odds are she is going to Yahoo to search for Hotmail or Facebook anyway.

jabroni_salad 4y ago

On my grandmother's computer I did the "install this site as an app" function for the sites she uses and they open up in frameless windows. The only browser controls available to her are back and refresh. Highly recommend.

dylan604 4y ago
Does this work with back button high jacking that is so common?

michaelcampbell 4y ago

> For the average Grandma who just wants to use Hotmail and Facebook, learning Edge is actually a monumental undertaking I don't know what value of "grandma" is subject to being averaged, but this feels needlessly hyperbolic.