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UK ‘barking up wrong tree’ trying to get over-50s back to work
- sam345 4y agoInteresting how a poor health care system can impact the general economic productivity. UK is going to struggle to get out of this spiral down. Pouring more money into the system is probably not going to fix it. Coupled with lower birth rates It's not a good sign going forward.
- Oxidation 4y ago> Interesting how a poor health care system can impact the general economic productivity. I thought this was basic governance. Even at the most ruthlessly utilitarian, healthy workers pay taxes.
- lotsofpulp 4y agoWhat if the healthcare system is mostly serving people too old or sick to work?
- Oxidation 4y agoSupport it better (shoveling money at it is probably necessary but not sufficient), ration care to prioritise workers (this is usually considered distasteful) or do nothing and drag down the general health and economic condition of the entire population. Basically, the system is thrashing: you can add RAM, make processes more efficient, oomkill "unimportant" things, or live with a virtually paralysed system.
- lotsofpulp 4y agoEveryone knows this. It is just a hard problem to solve due to the politically difficult task of > ration care to prioritise workers Who make up a good portion of voters. In an aging society that has promised its people healthcare, it becomes a fight between old and young as there are more limited resources to go around (absent sufficient automation).
- shapefrog 4y ago> ration care to prioritise workers - Who make up a good portion of voters The people recieving this priority are not likely to be voters for the current government. Those who would be deprioritised, Tory voters.
- treis 4y agoI found the actual study here: https://files-uk-prod.cms.commerce.dynamics.com/cms/api/dkstxzlwrj/binary/MH3jvX https://files-uk-prod.cms.commerce.dynamics.com/cms/api/dkst... If I'm reading it right, long term sick is self reported and comes with benefits. Not sure if the same applies in the UK, but in the US as welfare benefits were cut there was a large rise in those on disability because that was the only way to get government benefits.
- barbariangrunge 4y agoDo most software companies even hire people over 50 when the applicant doesn’t disguise themself as a younger person?
- mech422 4y agoDunno about 'most' ... but myself and my cohort are over 50, and it hasn't been an issue. I think salary is a bigger issue then age - why pay for a senior engineer (10+ YOE for most of my cohort) when a recent grad is cheaper ?
- anonuser123456 4y agoIn my small sample size (established, profitable companies) yes. Startups need young workers that will grind out lots of hours and pivot at the drip of a hat because the problem space is so large; there is no clear ‘right path’ forward. But established companies with clear product lines etc. need people to keep the machine going. And there is a lot of skill in the over 50 crowd. The best programmers I know are in their early 50s.
- coldtea 4y agoDepends on the country/culture. In two different countries I know of (though, not the US) they do.
- michaelcampbell 4y agoCan't answer "most" but I know at least some that do; maybe I don't look it (which seems unlikely), but I've been hired over 50 more than once.
- whatyesaid 4y agoFlawless Brexit.
- shapefrog 4y ago> “We were gobsmacked by what we found. It turns out there are fewer earlier retired today than at the start of the pandemic. You wouldn’t believe that from ministers’ speeches and talk of getting people back off the golf course,” It turns out that government ministers dont have the faintest idea of what they are talking about, except what their base wants to think so they can virtue signalling the correct message - which seems somewhat dangerous when they are setting the policy. If you want more "growth" getting a young person into (meaningful) work would generate more short term growth and vastly more long term growth.
- sbuk 4y agoThe only growth Tories want is in their own bank accounts. They certainly don’t care about young people. Then they don’t really care about old people either, it’s just that they are still gullible enough to believe what they and the Murdoch media tells them to.
- ta1243 4y agoOld people read the Mail and Express, not Murdoch media.
- stuaxo 4y agoThe messaging there is broadly the same.
- shapefrog 4y agoWho reads the papers? Yes, Prime Minister - https://youtu.be/DGscoaUWW2M https://youtu.be/DGscoaUWW2M
- Oxidation 4y agoSome old people definitely read the Times. Source: all the old people I'm related to who don't read the Telegraph which is even worse.
- ta1243 4y agoIf you want growth stop draining nearly over half your take home pay in rent and council tax. Relatively high income people can cope with increasing bills, rent, and food, but that means they aren't spending money at the pub or whatever, reducing economic activity. Those with lower incomes can't even afford food.
- ta1243 4y agoLot of wealthy 50-somethings that can live off their unearned income from their property portfolios. Since 2000 house prices (when buy-to-let started to boom and many people now in their 50s and 60s bought in) have increased 283%. Average wages have increased 106%, and rents are far higher as a portion of wages than in 2000.
- dangwhy 4y agoI know few family members that retired during pandemic and are now living off on their airbnb incomes in a tourist town. They are able bodies and are in good health, now spend their days skiing and goofing off everyday. "housing crisis" has led to labor shortages in a weird way.
- pharmakom 4y agoBingo. UK will never fix the housing crisis because if they do so many retirees will be left with reduced savings.
- neffy 4y agoI disagree, there is building everywhere you look on the main train lines into London. But the population needs to stabilise, and even then it would still take a while to catch up. British population is up by just under 10 million this century, that's a lot of new houses, and population density in houses is falling - its a far cry from the working class slum conditions of the 19th century, even in London these days.
- cjrp 4y agoWould be interesting to see what proportion of these new flats are being bought as investments to rent-out though.
- hanoz 4y agoBut now, finally, the disbenefits of rampant house price inflation are starting to be shared by everyone, rather than by only those locked out of the leverage-fueled bonanza. The huge cohort of winners have done so well out of it that it is now actually creating a labour shortage as described, outweighing the "wealth effect" which was supposedly so beneficial to the economy throughout the boom. So now maybe The Government and The Bank will not be quite so inclined to keep pumping it up any more.
- TazeTSchnitzel 4y agoWould be interesting to know how much of the increase in long-term illness is due to long COVID and how much is other health impacts of the pandemic.
- cjrp 4y agoChildcare's also an issue. Plenty of grandparents are providing free childcare so that their children can continue to work.
- stuaxo 4y agoNo mention of the effects of Covid here at all including Long Covid.
- binarymax 4y agoThis could be the death knell for the Tory party. The over-50 early retirement crowd is squarely in their voter group. Calling them out in the blame-game of a failing economy is a perfect way to turn your own voters against you. Well done.
- smcl 4y agoI thought they had already signed their own death warrant after the Truss mini-budget debacle. I don’t know what it looks like now, but at the time polling suggested they’d lose so many seats there was a real possibility they’d be the third party, with Labour having a huge majority and SNP as the opposition
- ben_w 4y agoThe Truss era polling put them forth, after both the SNP and the LibDems; since then their polling has been upgraded from "existential crisis" to "disastrous". https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_for_the_next_United_Kingdom_general_election https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_for_the_next_U... Edit: 4th by seats, not by percentage of the votes, given FPTP.
- smcl 4y agoOh you're right, I must have forgotten how low they sank at their worst.
- pharmakom 4y agoI don’t think they will make the link. “Everyone should stop being a lazy retiree but I’m not a lazy retiree because I worked hard all my life!”
- Drunk_Engineer 4y agoThis Spitting Image sketch never gets old: https://www.facebook.com/inmynewsfeed/videos/stupid-voters-spitting-image/1147529021924342/ https://www.facebook.com/inmynewsfeed/videos/stupid-voters-s...
- dzonga 4y agoit's not just over 50s. they need to incentivize the 18-25 age group that are not in school to work too. there's a massive labor shortage in the uk.
- jarym 4y agoBrexit: 'British jobs for British people'. Total failure on that front.