13 ms·

More correct albeit less clickbaity headline: recent builds of Microsoft Edge will uninstall any remnants of Internet Explorer from your PC and replace them wit

More correct albeit less clickbaity headline: recent builds of Microsoft Edge will uninstall any remnants of Internet Explorer from your PC and replace them with compatibility shims, so most legacy apps should continue to work as-is. On Windows Server platforms, where IE11 is still inexplicably the default experience even in the most recent 2022 editions, you can still enjoy its full functionality, until you explicitly install 'Edge for Business'. Which you should.

Asmod4n 4y ago
75% of PCs I had the pleasure today to „patch“ didn’t have IE Mode at all in edge, but still removed IE. Fun times.
- jonathantf2 4y ago
  IE mode has been around for ages, either push it through MDM or GPO.
  - Asmod4n 4y ago
    Windows home edition, we don’t control those PCs, the clients buy them themselves.
SQueeeeeL 4y ago
If people have genuine use cases (or even simply have a preferred remembered experience experience for how something complicated works like an elderly person) I see no reason why they "should" upgrade, and why instead we shouldn't at least try to provide those users a mediocre amount of support. For the average Grandma who just wants to use Hotmail and Facebook, learning Edge is actually a monumental undertaking
- PreInternet01 4y ago
  A genuine use case for IE11 on Windows Server platforms, which is what I was talking about, would mostly be 'masochism and a penchant for malware'. If your average grandparent runs Windows Server, learning a new browser every now and then would be the least of their problems, IMHO.
  - dylan604 4y ago
    Aren't we getting close to where somebody reading this forum has quite tech savvy grandparents yet? When will this "someone's grandparent" trope just retire too?
- tenebrisalietum 4y ago
  No. IE needs to be renamed "ActiveX Web App Engine" and no longer be associated with the concept of an Internet browser. Grandma can get an old iPad for Hotmail and Facebook, which is far safer, far less needing of support and what most people are using for those types of things anyway.
  - PreInternet01 4y ago
    > IE needs to be renamed "ActiveX Web App Engine" Which is effectively what Edge does. It redirects all IE11 COM endpoints to WebView2, which is Chrome-based and should Work Just Fine for the foreseeable future.
- HideousKojima 4y ago
  For the elderly, this is why: https://www.cvedetails.com/vulnerability-list/vendor_id-26/product_id-9900/version_id-508525/Microsoft-Internet-Explorer-11.html https://www.cvedetails.com/vulnerability-list/vendor_id-26/p... I'd much rather Grandma have to learn to do something slightly differently than to hear about how Grandma had her bank account information stolen by some JavaScript malware. For those with genuine use cases (I.e. ancient software that doesn't even work with the compatibility shims) I agree that there should be some way to run IE11 and older (and with only themselves to blame if they get pwned by ignoring the risks).
  - mulmen 4y ago
    > I'd much rather Grandma have to learn to do something slightly differently This attitude is responsible for more harm than any other single idea in software development. Do not break your users. You think you have a choice here but what really happens is Grandma stays on old software forever because the beatings have taught her to never update anything. And the really sad part is that she's right.
    - Gigachad 4y ago
      Grandma just buys the iPad because it just works and stays up to date without risk of malware while Windows is left a rotting mess of garbage because they are too afraid to change anything.
      - mulmen 4y ago
        Most iOS updates are invisible. The ones that aren’t cause some consternation. My parents were both thrilled when I showed them how to put the address bar back at the top of Safari.
- zdragnar 4y ago
  Assuming Grandma is passably familiar with IE11 already for Facebook and Hotmail, I doubt the switch to edge is "monumental". The most important items are all pretty close to their old positions. Odds are she is going to Yahoo to search for Hotmail or Facebook anyway.
- jabroni_salad 4y ago
  On my grandmother's computer I did the "install this site as an app" function for the sites she uses and they open up in frameless windows. The only browser controls available to her are back and refresh. Highly recommend.
  - dylan604 4y ago
    Does this work with back button high jacking that is so common?
- michaelcampbell 4y ago
  > For the average Grandma who just wants to use Hotmail and Facebook, learning Edge is actually a monumental undertaking I don't know what value of "grandma" is subject to being averaged, but this feels needlessly hyperbolic.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
nimbius 4y ago
>and replace them with compatibility shims christ can you imagine the raw hubris in 1995 to roll this out and inexplicably make it not only uninstallable by the user, but a core and critical functionality of your entire OS such that any attempt to sidestep or evade it would be met with ruination? Its so bombastic the US Justice department hauls your pepsi sipping CEO in for a round of slouching, hand-waving antitrust litigation but somehow you manage to make it out by smirking through interviews and the grace of a nation thats just awakening to the dawn of the internet. then fast forward 20 years later, your dumpster-fire web browser with all its lock-in and exploits still exists in the OS but the average user sees it as nothing more than a glorified blue icon to immediately download what has become your direct competitors far more competent and meaningful execution of browser software. So you sunset the horrorshow that was IE in favour of your competitors browser engine to power your new browser but the haggard burro of a thing you call an OS is so inextricably encumbered by your blues-traveler era nineties myopia you now need a team of H1B's to start writing shims and the burger from lunch feels like its starting to come back up... ...now eight years later whatever frankenstein browser you convinced yourself was a good idea to build is still nowhere near as popular as your competitors, and thats after you added built-in gaslighting to your search engine to dissuade anyone from even searching for your competitors browser. you even came up with your own prefix to force links in your daytime infomercial of an OS to open directly in your new pet browser but people still dont want to use it. heck, you routinely reset their default browser and the only thing its managed to do is galvanize what by all indicators is a nearly white-hot detest for your pet chrome that has 45 seconds of unavoidable fullscreen lecture on first load, built in ads and tours, and a weird buy now pay later feature.
- michaelt 4y ago
  > inexplicably make it not only uninstallable by the user, but a core and critical functionality of your entire OS Well, it's kind of explicable: It was at about that time Microsoft rolled out HTML Help, so they needed an HTML rendering engine on every PC to be able to read the documentation. Using a web browser as your native app's rendering engine is what all the cool kids are doing these days, so in a way they were just 15 years ahead of the curve.
cabalamat 4y ago
> most legacy apps should continue to work *most* I recently had an issue with MS deleting IE and a corporate legacy app not working.
- rbanffy 4y ago
  Compound interest over tech debt can snowball to quite impressive sizes.
jonathantf2 4y ago
Edge is shipped with Server 2022, assuming because Windows Admin Centre doesn’t support the only browser that 2019 came with out of the box
rbanffy 4y ago
> Which you should ... have done a long time ago.
pwdisswordfishc 4y ago
Does this include MSHTML (Trident), or just the iexplore.exe binary?
j45 4y ago
For those who experienced IE being forced on computers, simply entertaining the idea of it being forced off computers without choice is not just click-baity but also a special coming full circle moment. Besides, every step towards an OS being something a user doesn't own or control, either for their own good, or users who can't help themselves, is another step towards lasting demand for usable Linux. ' It's nice that Ubuntu is starting to feel like MacOSX when it started to become usable for the many and not just the few.

Asmod4n 4y ago

75% of PCs I had the pleasure today to „patch“ didn’t have IE Mode at all in edge, but still removed IE. Fun times.

jonathantf2 4y ago
IE mode has been around for ages, either push it through MDM or GPO.
- Asmod4n 4y ago
  Windows home edition, we don’t control those PCs, the clients buy them themselves.

SQueeeeeL 4y ago

If people have genuine use cases (or even simply have a preferred remembered experience experience for how something complicated works like an elderly person) I see no reason why they "should" upgrade, and why instead we shouldn't at least try to provide those users a mediocre amount of support. For the average Grandma who just wants to use Hotmail and Facebook, learning Edge is actually a monumental undertaking

PreInternet01 4y ago
A genuine use case for IE11 on Windows Server platforms, which is what I was talking about, would mostly be 'masochism and a penchant for malware'. If your average grandparent runs Windows Server, learning a new browser every now and then would be the least of their problems, IMHO.
- dylan604 4y ago
  Aren't we getting close to where somebody reading this forum has quite tech savvy grandparents yet? When will this "someone's grandparent" trope just retire too?
tenebrisalietum 4y ago
No. IE needs to be renamed "ActiveX Web App Engine" and no longer be associated with the concept of an Internet browser. Grandma can get an old iPad for Hotmail and Facebook, which is far safer, far less needing of support and what most people are using for those types of things anyway.
- PreInternet01 4y ago
  > IE needs to be renamed "ActiveX Web App Engine" Which is effectively what Edge does. It redirects all IE11 COM endpoints to WebView2, which is Chrome-based and should Work Just Fine for the foreseeable future.
HideousKojima 4y ago
For the elderly, this is why: https://www.cvedetails.com/vulnerability-list/vendor_id-26/product_id-9900/version_id-508525/Microsoft-Internet-Explorer-11.html https://www.cvedetails.com/vulnerability-list/vendor_id-26/p... I'd much rather Grandma have to learn to do something slightly differently than to hear about how Grandma had her bank account information stolen by some JavaScript malware. For those with genuine use cases (I.e. ancient software that doesn't even work with the compatibility shims) I agree that there should be some way to run IE11 and older (and with only themselves to blame if they get pwned by ignoring the risks).
- mulmen 4y ago
  > I'd much rather Grandma have to learn to do something slightly differently This attitude is responsible for more harm than any other single idea in software development. Do not break your users. You think you have a choice here but what really happens is Grandma stays on old software forever because the beatings have taught her to never update anything. And the really sad part is that she's right.
  - Gigachad 4y ago
    Grandma just buys the iPad because it just works and stays up to date without risk of malware while Windows is left a rotting mess of garbage because they are too afraid to change anything.
    - mulmen 4y ago
      Most iOS updates are invisible. The ones that aren’t cause some consternation. My parents were both thrilled when I showed them how to put the address bar back at the top of Safari.
zdragnar 4y ago
Assuming Grandma is passably familiar with IE11 already for Facebook and Hotmail, I doubt the switch to edge is "monumental". The most important items are all pretty close to their old positions. Odds are she is going to Yahoo to search for Hotmail or Facebook anyway.
jabroni_salad 4y ago
On my grandmother's computer I did the "install this site as an app" function for the sites she uses and they open up in frameless windows. The only browser controls available to her are back and refresh. Highly recommend.
- dylan604 4y ago
  Does this work with back button high jacking that is so common?
michaelcampbell 4y ago
> For the average Grandma who just wants to use Hotmail and Facebook, learning Edge is actually a monumental undertaking I don't know what value of "grandma" is subject to being averaged, but this feels needlessly hyperbolic.

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

nimbius 4y ago

>and replace them with compatibility shims christ can you imagine the raw hubris in 1995 to roll this out and inexplicably make it not only uninstallable by the user, but a core and critical functionality of your entire OS such that any attempt to sidestep or evade it would be met with ruination? Its so bombastic the US Justice department hauls your pepsi sipping CEO in for a round of slouching, hand-waving antitrust litigation but somehow you manage to make it out by smirking through interviews and the grace of a nation thats just awakening to the dawn of the internet. then fast forward 20 years later, your dumpster-fire web browser with all its lock-in and exploits still exists in the OS but the average user sees it as nothing more than a glorified blue icon to immediately download what has become your direct competitors far more competent and meaningful execution of browser software. So you sunset the horrorshow that was IE in favour of your competitors browser engine to power your new browser but the haggard burro of a thing you call an OS is so inextricably encumbered by your blues-traveler era nineties myopia you now need a team of H1B's to start writing shims and the burger from lunch feels like its starting to come back up... ...now eight years later whatever frankenstein browser you convinced yourself was a good idea to build is still nowhere near as popular as your competitors, and thats after you added built-in gaslighting to your search engine to dissuade anyone from even searching for your competitors browser. you even came up with your own prefix to force links in your daytime infomercial of an OS to open directly in your new pet browser but people still dont want to use it. heck, you routinely reset their default browser and the only thing its managed to do is galvanize what by all indicators is a nearly white-hot detest for your pet chrome that has 45 seconds of unavoidable fullscreen lecture on first load, built in ads and tours, and a weird buy now pay later feature.

michaelt 4y ago
> inexplicably make it not only uninstallable by the user, but a core and critical functionality of your entire OS Well, it's kind of explicable: It was at about that time Microsoft rolled out HTML Help, so they needed an HTML rendering engine on every PC to be able to read the documentation. Using a web browser as your native app's rendering engine is what all the cool kids are doing these days, so in a way they were just 15 years ahead of the curve.

cabalamat 4y ago

> most legacy apps should continue to work *most* I recently had an issue with MS deleting IE and a corporate legacy app not working.

rbanffy 4y ago
Compound interest over tech debt can snowball to quite impressive sizes.

jonathantf2 4y ago

Edge is shipped with Server 2022, assuming because Windows Admin Centre doesn’t support the only browser that 2019 came with out of the box

rbanffy 4y ago

> Which you should ... have done a long time ago.

pwdisswordfishc 4y ago

Does this include MSHTML (Trident), or just the iexplore.exe binary?

j45 4y ago

For those who experienced IE being forced on computers, simply entertaining the idea of it being forced off computers without choice is not just click-baity but also a special coming full circle moment. Besides, every step towards an OS being something a user doesn't own or control, either for their own good, or users who can't help themselves, is another step towards lasting demand for usable Linux. ' It's nice that Ubuntu is starting to feel like MacOSX when it started to become usable for the many and not just the few.