8 ms·

Out of curiosity: Has anybody ever heard of an engineering manager making the transition to showrunning?

CyberDildonics 4y ago
I don't think people with no knowledge of entertainment productions typically "transition" into the highest position orchestrating the use of many millions of dollars and hundreds of people.
- CalChris 4y ago
  No, Hollywood attracts talent broadly. You'll still serve an apprenticeship, reading scripts, ..., but my anecdote is walking across the parking lot on the way to a meeting at Paramount and seeing a US Naval Academy license plate frame.
  - CyberDildonics 4y ago
    No, I don't think transitioning to an entry level position is the same as 'transitioning' to the highest possible position. That's like someone asking if they can 'transition' to being the CEO of a nationally known company.
- tough 4y ago
  If the millions are yours you can certainly do as you wish with them tho.
  - dylan604 4y ago
    the old adage in show business was to never spend your own money. with the plethora of streaming options, that has been turned on its head. look at all of the shows where the lead talent is also an executive producer (the ones that write the checks).
    - rtsil 4y ago
      Most of these are either vanity credits, or just a way for the star to participate in the profits beyond salary and royalties.
      - dylan604 4y ago
        Or you have a project that as an actor you really want to perform a certain role so you show your commitment by putting up some money to get the project rolling. One of the common ways for financing media projects is where someone is willing to match someone else's contribution. The slimey parts come in when the original funding that is matched is guaranteed to be paid back first before others are paid, but that's not unique to the film industry
      - yamtaddle 4y ago
        I assume this is why everydamnthing has like 20 producers now.
    - klodolph 4y ago
      Writes the checks ≠ spending your own money. The executive producer is in some senses a liaison between the people providing the money and the people spending the money. I may be mixing this up. I know that “producer” and “executive producer” are somewhat different roles depending on whether you’re doing TV or film.
      - CalChris 4y ago
        Studio = Yale Investment Office, limited partner Producer = VC, general partner leading a funding Writer = Startup CTO, founder Director = Startup CEO It's a little different because studios greenlight and producers generally don't. But there are a lot more startups than movies or tv shows. Well, maybe studios don't greenlight development deals (seed startups).
        dylan604 4y ago
        Depending on the studio, they can be much more than a limited partner. They can be providing the facilities to office out of for pre-production and development, the actual production work using their soundstages and other properties, and to do post-production.
- swatcoder 4y ago
  Nah, I don't know specific examples that satisfy the OP's original question, but writing for entertainment (and showrunning as a management-level tier of that track) is just a career transition like any other. People who've had one professional career and been grinding on their writing on the side absolutely make the leap and move their way up. Often, their break comes from writing from their expertise. If you dig through shows about medicine, law, policing, etc etc, you'll often find several writers who were worked in those fields. Not every writer was a barista until they made their break. Some of them were indeed lawyers and engineers.
  - CyberDildonics 4y ago
    This sounds like you are talking about people transitioning to being a writer, not a show runner. That's like someone saying "has anyone transitioned to running cartoon network?" and someone else saying "people have transitioned to being an animator, which is almost the same thing".
    - swatcoder 4y ago
      No, there are many showrunners. It’s essentially just a management-like writing position for any of the thousands of scripted programs that produced each year. It’s an achievement to be proud of, just like being a partner at a law firm or an mid-high position at a high-profile FAANG, but it’s not as rarified as you seem to think.
      - CyberDildonics 4y ago
        No, it can't be a middle management position if you're the one in charge of the entire project. Also no, people don't transition from middle management in one industry to the top position of another industry.
        swatcoder 4y ago
        They’re not in charge of the project any more than any other project/product manager. Somebody else is still making final go and stop decisions on their projects, setting their budget, demanding stupid details, etc. They’re just in charge of wrangling some of the creative and production processes and get to take credit for the overall creative vision of the project (or blame their execs/peers/staff if they’re unhappy with it). Literally the same as in any other industry. I don’t know why I keep replying, but any reasonably social 40+ adult who had lived in SoCal personally knows showrunners as well as people in most other roles in the industry. Some have even held some of those roles! This isn’t some made up basement-dwelled bs that I’m sharing with you; this is actual ground knowledge.
walterbell 4y ago
Documentary director rather than TV showrunner, Charles Ferguson was the founder of Vermeer which created FrontPage, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Ferguson_(filmmaker) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Ferguson_(filmmaker) He also wrote one of the best startup failure-and-recovery books, "High Stakes, No Prisoners", https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=2719001 https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=2719001
crazygringo 4y ago
It's not a lateral move. Aside from the management aspect, it's an entirely different skill set. If you're an engineering manager who wants to become a showrunner, the process would basically be: 1) Take a bunch of screenwriting classes until you know you're reliably good at nuts-and-bolts screenwriting, which is far, far harder than you might ever guess. Writing a single compelling scene is hard enough, writing a good TV pilot is shockingly difficult. Time: ~3 years full time, but realize there's a 95+% chance you'll quit as you realize you ultimately don't have the writing chops or discover you simply don't enjoy it after all. 2) Write a few pilot scripts and use them as a portfolio to get hired in a writer's room on a TV show. Time: 2-3 years because it's going to take a while to write and take a while to get hired, at least on a show that is even somewhat similar to the type of show you ultimately want to showrun 3) Work for that TV show and then a couple others to build up actual experience, and don't just hang out inside the writer's room. Use the opportunity to get deeply familiar with all aspects of production. Time: 5 years 4) Now with your knowledge of the industry, write 2-3 excellent pilot scripts you think actually line up with what studios are looking to produce commercially. Shop them around until you a studio funds you. Showrun a pilot. Time: 3-5 years 5) Your pilot doesn't get picked up because it's too similar to another show that premiered on another network last month and doesn't have great ratings. This has nothing whatsoever to do with the quality of your own show. Repeat step 4, maybe more than once. Time: 3 years 6) This time your pilot gets picked up. Congrats, you're a showrunner! Total time: 18-ish years?? So obviously it's better if you quit your engineering manager job at age 22 or 25. But age doesn't really matter in showrunning except for your own energy level. Being 50 or 60 and running a show is pretty normal. So even if you want to make the move at 40, it's totally doable, if you have the writing talent. Now of course yes there are a few genius/lucky types that made a hit YouTube series on their iPhone and got their own show a year later (e.g. Broad City). But that's not usually how it works, unless you've really truly got something incredibly fresh and relevant to say. If you know you've got lightning in a bottle, then the above timeline doesn't apply.
sogen 4y ago
In The Offer, the tv series deals about The Godfather, and the main guy jumping from tech to show running.
jasmer 4y ago
Mike Judge is almost that.
simonw 4y ago
Not an engineering manager, but I love that the Queen's Gambit was written by the former CEO of a bunch of Scottish whisky distilleries: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allan_Scott_(Scottish_screenwriter) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allan_Scott_(Scottish_screenwr...
Terretta 4y ago
Yes

I don't think people with no knowledge of entertainment productions typically "transition" into the highest position orchestrating the use of many millions of dollars and hundreds of people.

CalChris 4y ago
No, Hollywood attracts talent broadly. You'll still serve an apprenticeship, reading scripts, ..., but my anecdote is walking across the parking lot on the way to a meeting at Paramount and seeing a US Naval Academy license plate frame.
- CyberDildonics 4y ago
  No, I don't think transitioning to an entry level position is the same as 'transitioning' to the highest possible position. That's like someone asking if they can 'transition' to being the CEO of a nationally known company.
tough 4y ago
If the millions are yours you can certainly do as you wish with them tho.
- dylan604 4y ago
  the old adage in show business was to never spend your own money. with the plethora of streaming options, that has been turned on its head. look at all of the shows where the lead talent is also an executive producer (the ones that write the checks).
  - rtsil 4y ago
    Most of these are either vanity credits, or just a way for the star to participate in the profits beyond salary and royalties.
    - dylan604 4y ago
      Or you have a project that as an actor you really want to perform a certain role so you show your commitment by putting up some money to get the project rolling. One of the common ways for financing media projects is where someone is willing to match someone else's contribution. The slimey parts come in when the original funding that is matched is guaranteed to be paid back first before others are paid, but that's not unique to the film industry
    - yamtaddle 4y ago
      I assume this is why everydamnthing has like 20 producers now.
  - klodolph 4y ago
    Writes the checks ≠ spending your own money. The executive producer is in some senses a liaison between the people providing the money and the people spending the money. I may be mixing this up. I know that “producer” and “executive producer” are somewhat different roles depending on whether you’re doing TV or film.
    - CalChris 4y ago
      Studio = Yale Investment Office, limited partner Producer = VC, general partner leading a funding Writer = Startup CTO, founder Director = Startup CEO It's a little different because studios greenlight and producers generally don't. But there are a lot more startups than movies or tv shows. Well, maybe studios don't greenlight development deals (seed startups).
      - dylan604 4y ago
        Depending on the studio, they can be much more than a limited partner. They can be providing the facilities to office out of for pre-production and development, the actual production work using their soundstages and other properties, and to do post-production.
swatcoder 4y ago
Nah, I don't know specific examples that satisfy the OP's original question, but writing for entertainment (and showrunning as a management-level tier of that track) is just a career transition like any other. People who've had one professional career and been grinding on their writing on the side absolutely make the leap and move their way up. Often, their break comes from writing from their expertise. If you dig through shows about medicine, law, policing, etc etc, you'll often find several writers who were worked in those fields. Not every writer was a barista until they made their break. Some of them were indeed lawyers and engineers.
- CyberDildonics 4y ago
  This sounds like you are talking about people transitioning to being a writer, not a show runner. That's like someone saying "has anyone transitioned to running cartoon network?" and someone else saying "people have transitioned to being an animator, which is almost the same thing".
  - swatcoder 4y ago
    No, there are many showrunners. It’s essentially just a management-like writing position for any of the thousands of scripted programs that produced each year. It’s an achievement to be proud of, just like being a partner at a law firm or an mid-high position at a high-profile FAANG, but it’s not as rarified as you seem to think.
    - CyberDildonics 4y ago
      No, it can't be a middle management position if you're the one in charge of the entire project. Also no, people don't transition from middle management in one industry to the top position of another industry.
      - swatcoder 4y ago
        They’re not in charge of the project any more than any other project/product manager. Somebody else is still making final go and stop decisions on their projects, setting their budget, demanding stupid details, etc. They’re just in charge of wrangling some of the creative and production processes and get to take credit for the overall creative vision of the project (or blame their execs/peers/staff if they’re unhappy with it). Literally the same as in any other industry. I don’t know why I keep replying, but any reasonably social 40+ adult who had lived in SoCal personally knows showrunners as well as people in most other roles in the industry. Some have even held some of those roles! This isn’t some made up basement-dwelled bs that I’m sharing with you; this is actual ground knowledge.

walterbell 4y ago

Documentary director rather than TV showrunner, Charles Ferguson was the founder of Vermeer which created FrontPage, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Ferguson_(filmmaker) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Ferguson_(filmmaker) He also wrote one of the best startup failure-and-recovery books, "High Stakes, No Prisoners", https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=2719001 https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=2719001

crazygringo 4y ago

It's not a lateral move. Aside from the management aspect, it's an entirely different skill set. If you're an engineering manager who wants to become a showrunner, the process would basically be: 1) Take a bunch of screenwriting classes until you know you're reliably good at nuts-and-bolts screenwriting, which is far, far harder than you might ever guess. Writing a single compelling scene is hard enough, writing a good TV pilot is shockingly difficult. Time: ~3 years full time, but realize there's a 95+% chance you'll quit as you realize you ultimately don't have the writing chops or discover you simply don't enjoy it after all. 2) Write a few pilot scripts and use them as a portfolio to get hired in a writer's room on a TV show. Time: 2-3 years because it's going to take a while to write and take a while to get hired, at least on a show that is even somewhat similar to the type of show you ultimately want to showrun 3) Work for that TV show and then a couple others to build up actual experience, and don't just hang out inside the writer's room. Use the opportunity to get deeply familiar with all aspects of production. Time: 5 years 4) Now with your knowledge of the industry, write 2-3 excellent pilot scripts you think actually line up with what studios are looking to produce commercially. Shop them around until you a studio funds you. Showrun a pilot. Time: 3-5 years 5) Your pilot doesn't get picked up because it's too similar to another show that premiered on another network last month and doesn't have great ratings. This has nothing whatsoever to do with the quality of your own show. Repeat step 4, maybe more than once. Time: 3 years 6) This time your pilot gets picked up. Congrats, you're a showrunner! Total time: 18-ish years?? So obviously it's better if you quit your engineering manager job at age 22 or 25. But age doesn't really matter in showrunning except for your own energy level. Being 50 or 60 and running a show is pretty normal. So even if you want to make the move at 40, it's totally doable, if you have the writing talent. Now of course yes there are a few genius/lucky types that made a hit YouTube series on their iPhone and got their own show a year later (e.g. Broad City). But that's not usually how it works, unless you've really truly got something incredibly fresh and relevant to say. If you know you've got lightning in a bottle, then the above timeline doesn't apply.

sogen 4y ago

In The Offer, the tv series deals about The Godfather, and the main guy jumping from tech to show running.

jasmer 4y ago

Mike Judge is almost that.

simonw 4y ago

Not an engineering manager, but I love that the Queen's Gambit was written by the former CEO of a bunch of Scottish whisky distilleries: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allan_Scott_(Scottish_screenwriter) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allan_Scott_(Scottish_screenwr...

Terretta 4y ago

Yes