4 ms·

If you read Eco’s essay, you’ll see he holds up America as an example of a country that is not fascist. So I don’t think he’d agree with you.

kelseyfrog 4y ago
He also wrote it 28 years ago. Can a country change that fast and has it are certainly two different questions.
- aidenn0 4y ago
  The seeds were all planted 28 years ago. They just hadn't fully flowered yet.
- tcmart14 4y ago
  Not necessarily weight in on if fascists or not. But this point can definitely be true and we even have an example. Germany went from the loss of WW1 to the Wiemar Republican, probably one of the most liberal governments in its day, to Nazi Germany in pretty much a 20 year period.
klyrs 4y ago
America is a weird place. I would evaluate a more specific claim: Trumpism is Fascism, according to Eco's fourteen points: > "The cult of tradition" This point is rather weakly supported, as Trump does not attend any tradition whatsoever. However, his Supreme Court picks are originalists from the Federalist Society, whose purpose is the maintenance of tradition. > "The rejection of modernism" Anti-vax, anti-woke, anti-LGBT. > "The cult of action for action's sake", I don't see this in Trump specifically. The Iraq invasion, certainly, but that's far enough removed from Trumpism that I'll say nah. > "Disagreement is treason" This, 100 times over. Trump has used, if not these exact words, this sentiment towards any sort of criticism especially when it comes from within his own party/cabinet. > "Fear of difference" Mexico. China. Shithole countries. Saying American Congresswomen should "go back where they came from." > "Appeal to a frustrated middle class" Trump's anti-NAFTA stance was widely described as the reason that he was the economically rational choice for many voters who were displaced from the middle class when manufacturing jobs were exported by that agreement. > "Obsession with a plot" QAnon. > "Pacifism is trafficking with the enemy" Trump was curiously less hawkish than recent presidents; he gets a pass here. > "Contempt for the weak" Trump wears this on his sleeve and proclaims love, literally love for authoritarian leaders he sees as strong. > "Everybody is educated to become a hero" This point is somewhat weak; but his attack on John McCain stands out: "I like people who weren't captured" > "Machismo" Yes. From "grab 'em by the pussy" to sexualizing his own daughter to his "low energy" comments about his political opponents; there are too many examples to list. > "Selective populism" This is a common theme for Trump -- he frequently equates his opinion with the will of the people, and derides anybody who disagrees with him as un-American. > "Newspeak" Calling this "newspeak" is contentious; Eco's point was about promoting an impoverished vocabulary. The Republican party has long relied on "definitions," or linguistic originalism, to argue against social progress; specifically against gay marriage and trans rights. By my count, that's 9.5/14. Trumpism is more fascist than not, by Eco's definition. Hitler was bent on world domination, which is the principle axis that Trumpism fails Eco's test. That Trump was elected points to the popularity of fascism in the US. It isn't a monoculture, America is not just fascist, but concerns about fascism are well-justified.

kelseyfrog 4y ago

He also wrote it 28 years ago. Can a country change that fast and has it are certainly two different questions.

aidenn0 4y ago
The seeds were all planted 28 years ago. They just hadn't fully flowered yet.
tcmart14 4y ago
Not necessarily weight in on if fascists or not. But this point can definitely be true and we even have an example. Germany went from the loss of WW1 to the Wiemar Republican, probably one of the most liberal governments in its day, to Nazi Germany in pretty much a 20 year period.

klyrs 4y ago

America is a weird place. I would evaluate a more specific claim: Trumpism is Fascism, according to Eco's fourteen points: > "The cult of tradition" This point is rather weakly supported, as Trump does not attend any tradition whatsoever. However, his Supreme Court picks are originalists from the Federalist Society, whose purpose is the maintenance of tradition. > "The rejection of modernism" Anti-vax, anti-woke, anti-LGBT. > "The cult of action for action's sake", I don't see this in Trump specifically. The Iraq invasion, certainly, but that's far enough removed from Trumpism that I'll say nah. > "Disagreement is treason" This, 100 times over. Trump has used, if not these exact words, this sentiment towards any sort of criticism especially when it comes from within his own party/cabinet. > "Fear of difference" Mexico. China. Shithole countries. Saying American Congresswomen should "go back where they came from." > "Appeal to a frustrated middle class" Trump's anti-NAFTA stance was widely described as the reason that he was the economically rational choice for many voters who were displaced from the middle class when manufacturing jobs were exported by that agreement. > "Obsession with a plot" QAnon. > "Pacifism is trafficking with the enemy" Trump was curiously less hawkish than recent presidents; he gets a pass here. > "Contempt for the weak" Trump wears this on his sleeve and proclaims love, literally love for authoritarian leaders he sees as strong. > "Everybody is educated to become a hero" This point is somewhat weak; but his attack on John McCain stands out: "I like people who weren't captured" > "Machismo" Yes. From "grab 'em by the pussy" to sexualizing his own daughter to his "low energy" comments about his political opponents; there are too many examples to list. > "Selective populism" This is a common theme for Trump -- he frequently equates his opinion with the will of the people, and derides anybody who disagrees with him as un-American. > "Newspeak" Calling this "newspeak" is contentious; Eco's point was about promoting an impoverished vocabulary. The Republican party has long relied on "definitions," or linguistic originalism, to argue against social progress; specifically against gay marriage and trans rights. By my count, that's 9.5/14. Trumpism is more fascist than not, by Eco's definition. Hitler was bent on world domination, which is the principle axis that Trumpism fails Eco's test. That Trump was elected points to the popularity of fascism in the US. It isn't a monoculture, America is not just fascist, but concerns about fascism are well-justified.