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Well on the side of the Americans doing it, we have a reputable western journalist citing their anonymous sources saying it was the Americans and Norwegians, th

Well on the side of the Americans doing it, we have a reputable western journalist citing their anonymous sources saying it was the Americans and Norwegians, the Americans in the past having actively vowed to stop Nordstream 2 if Russia invaded Ukraine, and the Americans have the abundantly clear motive of kneecapping the Russian economy, while increasing the value of their own oil exports. On the side of the Russians doing it - the Russians total lack of motive proves it was them. Blowing up your own pipeline is so incredibly stupid and self defeating that people will always doubt you did it, making it the perfect false flag attack! Imagine how inspired the Russians are to support this war now that a piece of inanimate infrastructure blew up with a heavily indirect impact on their day to day lives! Plus the Germans will suspect America because of the Russians total lack of motive.

_kbh_ 4y ago
> Well on the side of the Americans doing it, we have a reputable western journalist citing their anonymous sources saying it was the Americans and Norwegians, the Americans in the past having actively vowed to stop Nordstream 2 if Russia invaded Ukraine, and the Americans have the abundantly clear motive of kneecapping the Russian economy, while increasing the value of their own oil exports. On one hand, we have a story with no real evidence in anyway shape or form, that gets key facts about the players involved completely wrong from someone who used to be credible. Wherever Hersh got his story doesn't seem to know a lot about reality.
jemmyw 4y ago
The reputable western journalist has given exactly the same amount of evidence as game theory: zero. Yes the US had reasons for disliking this pipeline. But I would forward that blowing it up at that time would be a dumb move. They were kneecapping the Russian economy anyway AND getting lucrative LNG business from Europe. The downside to being caught seems to outweigh the gain of doing it in such an ostentatious way. Plus the US didn't need to blow it up to achieve the same goals. They have so many diplomatic levers. I don't think German politicians give any credence to it being the Americans. So it could be the US, but only if they were really stupid. I guess Russia doesn't have a monopoly on stupid.
jcranmer 4y ago
> their anonymous sources That's "their single anonymous source." > the Americans have the abundantly clear motive of kneecapping the Russian economy, while increasing the value of their own oil exports. If you're going to dismiss Russia's motives as purportedly stupid, you also need to acknowledge the stupidity of America's motives in attempting to achieve what it had already achieved. One of the things that makes this interesting is that no one has a great motive (save the one actor that most are ready to discount due to lack of opportunity to do it--Ukraine).
- tptacek 4y ago
  Here it's worth adding that none of these pipelines were operational in the first place, so the idea that this was some great economic coup against Russia is kind of off the table.
- iavael 4y ago
  > attempting to achieve what it had already achieved It did not. War will end sooner or later and pipeline will again become tempting source for cheap gas for Germany and other European countries. Now after 3 of 4 lines gone Germany has no way back to being dependant on russian gas.

_kbh_ 4y ago

> Well on the side of the Americans doing it, we have a reputable western journalist citing their anonymous sources saying it was the Americans and Norwegians, the Americans in the past having actively vowed to stop Nordstream 2 if Russia invaded Ukraine, and the Americans have the abundantly clear motive of kneecapping the Russian economy, while increasing the value of their own oil exports. On one hand, we have a story with no real evidence in anyway shape or form, that gets key facts about the players involved completely wrong from someone who used to be credible. Wherever Hersh got his story doesn't seem to know a lot about reality.

jemmyw 4y ago

The reputable western journalist has given exactly the same amount of evidence as game theory: zero. Yes the US had reasons for disliking this pipeline. But I would forward that blowing it up at that time would be a dumb move. They were kneecapping the Russian economy anyway AND getting lucrative LNG business from Europe. The downside to being caught seems to outweigh the gain of doing it in such an ostentatious way. Plus the US didn't need to blow it up to achieve the same goals. They have so many diplomatic levers. I don't think German politicians give any credence to it being the Americans. So it could be the US, but only if they were really stupid. I guess Russia doesn't have a monopoly on stupid.

jcranmer 4y ago

> their anonymous sources That's "their single anonymous source." > the Americans have the abundantly clear motive of kneecapping the Russian economy, while increasing the value of their own oil exports. If you're going to dismiss Russia's motives as purportedly stupid, you also need to acknowledge the stupidity of America's motives in attempting to achieve what it had already achieved. One of the things that makes this interesting is that no one has a great motive (save the one actor that most are ready to discount due to lack of opportunity to do it--Ukraine).

tptacek 4y ago
Here it's worth adding that none of these pipelines were operational in the first place, so the idea that this was some great economic coup against Russia is kind of off the table.
iavael 4y ago
> attempting to achieve what it had already achieved It did not. War will end sooner or later and pipeline will again become tempting source for cheap gas for Germany and other European countries. Now after 3 of 4 lines gone Germany has no way back to being dependant on russian gas.