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This is one of the reasons so many people do not take management seriously. If your performance qualification depends on how many people the company wants to fi

This is one of the reasons so many people do not take management seriously. If your performance qualification depends on how many people the company wants to fire then your performance is not what is being evaluated. In good companies, jobs have a set of well expectations. Your performance is measure against that expectations. The company may be about to close and yet your performance can be good. After pulling something like this a company will lose any trust that employees had in its evaluation system.

bombcar 4y ago
You can replace almost all performance reviews (and grading in school) with “these people would be fired/fail before you” and anything else is just playing pretend.
- hourago 4y ago
  That seems a little extreme. I have seen performance reviews used correctly to help engineers to improve on areas that they were lacking. And it works. Some people needs to improve communication skills, or have some blind technical spot. Doing that makes them way better, and I have seen people getting better jobs after improving (inside and outside the company). But I agree that any tool used wrongly can be replaced by something simpler that cuts to the chase and delivers on what management is really interested in. And in this case has nothing to do with improving employees performance.
  - clnq 4y ago
    Do performance reviews work better than just constructive feedback in 1:1s though? Reviews seem to be a pathway for the company to get rid of people rather than to help them grow. As a growth pathway, it is very ineffective. Other efforts work better imo - mentoring, 1:1s, 360 degree feedback, learning budgets, workshops, introducing a culture more appreciative of learning, and so on. They can cost less in total work hours spent than performance review weeks too.
    - gbin 4y ago
      For my org the performance review should not be surprising for the employees. Through 1:1 and continuous feedback they should exactly know where they are. This should be the opportunity to formalize the feedback and set goals for the next cycle.
      - clnq 4y ago
        Then they seem kind of superfluous to 1:1s, right? Without 1:1s, performance reviews alone would not be very effective for employee growth. With 1:1s, they are more of a formality - not adding anything new to the conversation.
        xbpx 4y ago
        It's so the middle managers can see that the line managers have done some due diligence. This is to prevent the case where line managers "don't have a good feeling" about an employee but can't point to specific items that have been communicated to the employee. In an ideal world with great line managers you wouldn't need a performance review, it would be handled in 1:1s. That's not our world and we need rigid formal systems to increase the likelihood that basic steps are followed, on average across many managers and employees.
        deleted 4y ago
        [deleted]
        clnq 4y ago
        I don’t know… In my experience, managers’ bias can sneak into performance reviews. Sometimes that puts a spotlight on the manager and has consequences, but not always.
- gladiatr72 4y ago
  Who said anything about grades?
- bb88 4y ago
  That's basically stack ranking. You can stack rank employees from critical to least important, as well as entire departments. But like with all management systems, it too can be gamed. People put their friends ahead of others, or they might fire one half of a married couple over a worse employee that's the single wage earner. At a defense contractor I once worked at, we talked about it being highly dangerous to be married to another employee.
  - number6 4y ago
    I can't see why this is different from married couples in general apart from putting all eggs in one basket.
germinalphrase 4y ago
“ Your performance is measure against that expectations.” Sure - but it appears that those expectations just changed.
sander27home 4y ago
You assume management is competent. Near 99% of them have no management qualification like MBA. Vast majority got it through "experience". Vast majority don't know how to work with VBA excel to even automate those management spreadsheet. They have never taken any HR degrees modules to even know any theory of human resources.
- red-iron-pine 4y ago
  MBAs are more about hustle and networking than about actual management skills. 90% of the folks reading this comment could pick up the management skills via one week's worth of Udemy courses. "A degree in business is, in most cases, a degree in nothing"

bombcar 4y ago

You can replace almost all performance reviews (and grading in school) with “these people would be fired/fail before you” and anything else is just playing pretend.

hourago 4y ago
That seems a little extreme. I have seen performance reviews used correctly to help engineers to improve on areas that they were lacking. And it works. Some people needs to improve communication skills, or have some blind technical spot. Doing that makes them way better, and I have seen people getting better jobs after improving (inside and outside the company). But I agree that any tool used wrongly can be replaced by something simpler that cuts to the chase and delivers on what management is really interested in. And in this case has nothing to do with improving employees performance.
- clnq 4y ago
  Do performance reviews work better than just constructive feedback in 1:1s though? Reviews seem to be a pathway for the company to get rid of people rather than to help them grow. As a growth pathway, it is very ineffective. Other efforts work better imo - mentoring, 1:1s, 360 degree feedback, learning budgets, workshops, introducing a culture more appreciative of learning, and so on. They can cost less in total work hours spent than performance review weeks too.
  - gbin 4y ago
    For my org the performance review should not be surprising for the employees. Through 1:1 and continuous feedback they should exactly know where they are. This should be the opportunity to formalize the feedback and set goals for the next cycle.
    - clnq 4y ago
      Then they seem kind of superfluous to 1:1s, right? Without 1:1s, performance reviews alone would not be very effective for employee growth. With 1:1s, they are more of a formality - not adding anything new to the conversation.
      - xbpx 4y ago
        It's so the middle managers can see that the line managers have done some due diligence. This is to prevent the case where line managers "don't have a good feeling" about an employee but can't point to specific items that have been communicated to the employee. In an ideal world with great line managers you wouldn't need a performance review, it would be handled in 1:1s. That's not our world and we need rigid formal systems to increase the likelihood that basic steps are followed, on average across many managers and employees.
        deleted 4y ago
        [deleted]
        clnq 4y ago
        I don’t know… In my experience, managers’ bias can sneak into performance reviews. Sometimes that puts a spotlight on the manager and has consequences, but not always.
gladiatr72 4y ago
Who said anything about grades?
bb88 4y ago
That's basically stack ranking. You can stack rank employees from critical to least important, as well as entire departments. But like with all management systems, it too can be gamed. People put their friends ahead of others, or they might fire one half of a married couple over a worse employee that's the single wage earner. At a defense contractor I once worked at, we talked about it being highly dangerous to be married to another employee.
- number6 4y ago
  I can't see why this is different from married couples in general apart from putting all eggs in one basket.

germinalphrase 4y ago

“ Your performance is measure against that expectations.” Sure - but it appears that those expectations just changed.

sander27home 4y ago

You assume management is competent. Near 99% of them have no management qualification like MBA. Vast majority got it through "experience". Vast majority don't know how to work with VBA excel to even automate those management spreadsheet. They have never taken any HR degrees modules to even know any theory of human resources.

red-iron-pine 4y ago
MBAs are more about hustle and networking than about actual management skills. 90% of the folks reading this comment could pick up the management skills via one week's worth of Udemy courses. "A degree in business is, in most cases, a degree in nothing"