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Remember when Twitter instituted a forever policy of remote work that lasted a whole of two years? https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2020/10/01/twitter-

Remember when Twitter instituted a forever policy of remote work that lasted a whole of two years? https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2020/10/01/twitter-work-from-home/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2020/10/01/twitter...

echelon 4y ago
That was Jack Dorsey. Jack Dorsey doubled down on the policy for his other company, Square. Some of their leadership and highest ranking employees are fully remote. I'd bet against this policy ending. Elon canceled WFH for a multitude of reasons. Mainly to encourage willing employees to leave and those that remained to work harder.
- moomin 4y ago
  If you still believe people work harder in the office I don’t know what to tell you.
  - mulmen 4y ago
    In office employees definitely work harder. They spend time commuting. They suffer constant distractions. They deal with physically relocating in the office multiple times per day. They experience physical discomfort in an environment they cannot control. What in office employees don’t do is deliver more value per minute to the company because they waste energy just trying to exist in an office.
    - wayeq 4y ago
      yeah but... the free snacks...
      - deleted 4y ago
        [deleted]
    - elvis10ten 4y ago
      Why do we have to go completely for or against something. There are pros and cons to both. Situations where one trumps the other. Why can’t we have both? > What in office employees don’t do is deliver more value per minute Isn’t this contextual? > They spend time commuting Also this. Commute can be productive especially in cities where people can safely cycle to the office. > They suffer constant distractions. Lots of the folks I meet in the office currently, have more distractions at home. > They experience physical discomfort in an environment they cannot control. “home” is not the opposite for many people.
      - zeroonetwothree 4y ago
        The internet isn't the place to get nuance. Everything apparently has to be either 100% good or 100% bad. (I do have higher expectations for HN, but I guess not that much higher).
      - kamaal 4y ago
        >>Lots of the folks I meet in the office currently, have more distractions at home. WFH is productive only if you are single. Or have single like benefits. Like kids who are off to school and a spouse who doesn't talk to your for hours. Other wise you are better off working at office. At home you get peppered by spouse/kids/chores tasks during your working hours.
  - echelon 4y ago
    I didn't say that. Also, think about those on an H-1B. Their options are limited.
  - mc32 4y ago
    Some do and are able to manage their time very well; others cannot and without the structure of the office are left floundering and apt to not be available for communication for prolonged periods…
  - chillbill 4y ago
    There are some very valid reasons why it should be encouraged to work from the office, and yea they do include productive hard work, I’ve heard this first hand from both bosses working in big and small companies and from employees. The group that appreciates work from office and has noticeable productivity improvement is new recruits and fresh grads that move to get a job, as they need new friends, and if there’s no office culture and work colleagues to have lunch with or at least the occasional AW, then they get lonely, unproductive and they eventually leave. For older more mature people who have families it’s an amazing gift to be able to work from home, for some it absolutely isn’t. The point is that you can decide how to run things in your company and try to be flexible.
    - motbus3 4y ago
      It is true in my opinion, but most bosses I heard just think employees are cheating their work and this is something I do not agree. I've worked for a company who had to go full remote due to covid and productivity increase a lot because people were not being bothered by senseless interruptions and calls. When asked why move back to the office in a meeting where people could ask "anything", the CEO just said he doesn't believe in working from home and he does not want that for the company but provided zero reasons for his beliefs. :/ Also commuting is such a pain that it makes me feel depressed. I took about 2h each leg and sometimes it was even worse. I usually get so much earlier in the office to avoid not being late and I had to simply not do anything as I could never leaver earlier too :(
  - greenthrow 4y ago
    Your comment tells me you don't know what you are talking about. I have been working in tech for more than two decades, tons of that in offices and tons of it remote. Different people thrive in different environments. Some people who are very productive remotely will struggle in an office. Some will do both in either. Some do better in offices. Not every office is the same either. When Google first started introducing the kind of office benefits they did in the early 2000s people said silly things not unlike your comment; those benefits "spoil" employees, there's no way they will have good productivity when they make the office like a resort hotel, etc. Don't be a reactionary. Think about things more and you'll be right more often than you are now.
    - lumb63 4y ago
      > Not every office is the same. This has been my experience as well. Also, not every company is the same. When COVID hit, I started working remote, and the company was very poorly equipped to deal with work from home. Communication disappeared and culture died out. I stopped being interested in my work and left the team, and later, the company. Fast forward to my new company. It’s remote-first. More than half the workforce is remote and it saves the company what I’d imagine to be a pretty sum in office supplies, rent, etc. I’m hybrid now, but 90% of the time is remote. I’m much happier now than in my old remote experience. I don’t have to commute and I haven’t missed out on any of the perks of an office because of the company structure and techniques, and a few other decisions by myself. The things I think are game changers: - Slack, or similar. My old company used Teams. It was slow and buggy and I disliked it. Having channels is a game changer for remote work! Being able to have channels with many people creates a place for banter and common, shared experiences. That makes a remote team feel much more personal. - Having a good home office. My first stint with remote work, I was ill prepared. I had no desk and was working at the dining room table. I had no good peripherals, no good chair, etc. Not a good environment. Now I have a standing desk, a mouse and keyboard I enjoy, nice monitors, a good chair, a separate area of the house dedicated to work. This has made a huge difference in my mindset. I’m “at work” by being in an area of my home I reserved exclusively for work, and I’m comfortable in it. I dread going into the office where the water doesn’t taste as good, the air is stale, there’s little natural light, I have limited control over my environment. I’m now much more productive at home. As a bonus, I get back an hour (or more, depending on traffic) of my day, and save myself all the accompanying stress of commuting.
  - lkrubner 4y ago
    People take a lot of time off when they work from home. I am as guilty of this as anyone. People tend to focus more on work while they are in an office. Also, it is much easier for managers to organize the work when the people being organized are within line-of-site. The pattern I've seen emerge at New York City startups is: 1. the leadership and most important employees meet at the office 3 to 4 days a week. 2. less important employees are allowed to work from home The workers in group 2 are in direct competition with outsourcing firms in India, Vietnam, Brazil, etc. If you are just an average frontend programmer, and allowed to work from home, there is a good chance that your work can be sent overseas. So workers in this group are seeing more downward pressure on their wages, and have a more precarious position.
    - TheCleric 4y ago
      I call bull on this. I work HARDER at home. When there's no clean delineation between where you work and where you live it's a lot easier to work late or on the weekend because your commute is all of 10 seconds. This is absolutely unhealthy behavior, but my WFH problems have never been because I'm slacking off since I'm at home. People with integrity will work. People without integrity will find ways of avoiding work. Location doesn't matter. Hire or work with the former; avoid the latter.
      - benatkin 4y ago
        I'll see your anecdote and raise you a few productive companies that have RTO policies: - Apple: https://www.fastcompany.com/90781330/apple-return-to-office-rto-tech-plans https://www.fastcompany.com/90781330/apple-return-to-office-... - Amazon: https://www.cnbc.com/2023/02/17/amazon-employees-asked-to-be-in-office-three-days-a-week-andy-jassy.html https://www.cnbc.com/2023/02/17/amazon-employees-asked-to-be... - Microsoft: https://www.nytimes.com/2022/02/14/technology/microsoft-rto.html https://www.nytimes.com/2022/02/14/technology/microsoft-rto.... Why should your anecdote be stronger than this?
        headsoup 4y ago
        Because the large companies have other incentives in promoting office work as the better solution.

echelon 4y ago

That was Jack Dorsey. Jack Dorsey doubled down on the policy for his other company, Square. Some of their leadership and highest ranking employees are fully remote. I'd bet against this policy ending. Elon canceled WFH for a multitude of reasons. Mainly to encourage willing employees to leave and those that remained to work harder.

moomin 4y ago
If you still believe people work harder in the office I don’t know what to tell you.
- mulmen 4y ago
  In office employees definitely work harder. They spend time commuting. They suffer constant distractions. They deal with physically relocating in the office multiple times per day. They experience physical discomfort in an environment they cannot control. What in office employees don’t do is deliver more value per minute to the company because they waste energy just trying to exist in an office.
  - wayeq 4y ago
    yeah but... the free snacks...
    - deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]
  - elvis10ten 4y ago
    Why do we have to go completely for or against something. There are pros and cons to both. Situations where one trumps the other. Why can’t we have both? > What in office employees don’t do is deliver more value per minute Isn’t this contextual? > They spend time commuting Also this. Commute can be productive especially in cities where people can safely cycle to the office. > They suffer constant distractions. Lots of the folks I meet in the office currently, have more distractions at home. > They experience physical discomfort in an environment they cannot control. “home” is not the opposite for many people.
    - zeroonetwothree 4y ago
      The internet isn't the place to get nuance. Everything apparently has to be either 100% good or 100% bad. (I do have higher expectations for HN, but I guess not that much higher).
    - kamaal 4y ago
      >>Lots of the folks I meet in the office currently, have more distractions at home. WFH is productive only if you are single. Or have single like benefits. Like kids who are off to school and a spouse who doesn't talk to your for hours. Other wise you are better off working at office. At home you get peppered by spouse/kids/chores tasks during your working hours.
- echelon 4y ago
  I didn't say that. Also, think about those on an H-1B. Their options are limited.
- mc32 4y ago
  Some do and are able to manage their time very well; others cannot and without the structure of the office are left floundering and apt to not be available for communication for prolonged periods…
- chillbill 4y ago
  There are some very valid reasons why it should be encouraged to work from the office, and yea they do include productive hard work, I’ve heard this first hand from both bosses working in big and small companies and from employees. The group that appreciates work from office and has noticeable productivity improvement is new recruits and fresh grads that move to get a job, as they need new friends, and if there’s no office culture and work colleagues to have lunch with or at least the occasional AW, then they get lonely, unproductive and they eventually leave. For older more mature people who have families it’s an amazing gift to be able to work from home, for some it absolutely isn’t. The point is that you can decide how to run things in your company and try to be flexible.
  - motbus3 4y ago
    It is true in my opinion, but most bosses I heard just think employees are cheating their work and this is something I do not agree. I've worked for a company who had to go full remote due to covid and productivity increase a lot because people were not being bothered by senseless interruptions and calls. When asked why move back to the office in a meeting where people could ask "anything", the CEO just said he doesn't believe in working from home and he does not want that for the company but provided zero reasons for his beliefs. :/ Also commuting is such a pain that it makes me feel depressed. I took about 2h each leg and sometimes it was even worse. I usually get so much earlier in the office to avoid not being late and I had to simply not do anything as I could never leaver earlier too :(
- greenthrow 4y ago
  Your comment tells me you don't know what you are talking about. I have been working in tech for more than two decades, tons of that in offices and tons of it remote. Different people thrive in different environments. Some people who are very productive remotely will struggle in an office. Some will do both in either. Some do better in offices. Not every office is the same either. When Google first started introducing the kind of office benefits they did in the early 2000s people said silly things not unlike your comment; those benefits "spoil" employees, there's no way they will have good productivity when they make the office like a resort hotel, etc. Don't be a reactionary. Think about things more and you'll be right more often than you are now.
  - lumb63 4y ago
    > Not every office is the same. This has been my experience as well. Also, not every company is the same. When COVID hit, I started working remote, and the company was very poorly equipped to deal with work from home. Communication disappeared and culture died out. I stopped being interested in my work and left the team, and later, the company. Fast forward to my new company. It’s remote-first. More than half the workforce is remote and it saves the company what I’d imagine to be a pretty sum in office supplies, rent, etc. I’m hybrid now, but 90% of the time is remote. I’m much happier now than in my old remote experience. I don’t have to commute and I haven’t missed out on any of the perks of an office because of the company structure and techniques, and a few other decisions by myself. The things I think are game changers: - Slack, or similar. My old company used Teams. It was slow and buggy and I disliked it. Having channels is a game changer for remote work! Being able to have channels with many people creates a place for banter and common, shared experiences. That makes a remote team feel much more personal. - Having a good home office. My first stint with remote work, I was ill prepared. I had no desk and was working at the dining room table. I had no good peripherals, no good chair, etc. Not a good environment. Now I have a standing desk, a mouse and keyboard I enjoy, nice monitors, a good chair, a separate area of the house dedicated to work. This has made a huge difference in my mindset. I’m “at work” by being in an area of my home I reserved exclusively for work, and I’m comfortable in it. I dread going into the office where the water doesn’t taste as good, the air is stale, there’s little natural light, I have limited control over my environment. I’m now much more productive at home. As a bonus, I get back an hour (or more, depending on traffic) of my day, and save myself all the accompanying stress of commuting.
- lkrubner 4y ago
  People take a lot of time off when they work from home. I am as guilty of this as anyone. People tend to focus more on work while they are in an office. Also, it is much easier for managers to organize the work when the people being organized are within line-of-site. The pattern I've seen emerge at New York City startups is: 1. the leadership and most important employees meet at the office 3 to 4 days a week. 2. less important employees are allowed to work from home The workers in group 2 are in direct competition with outsourcing firms in India, Vietnam, Brazil, etc. If you are just an average frontend programmer, and allowed to work from home, there is a good chance that your work can be sent overseas. So workers in this group are seeing more downward pressure on their wages, and have a more precarious position.
  - TheCleric 4y ago
    I call bull on this. I work HARDER at home. When there's no clean delineation between where you work and where you live it's a lot easier to work late or on the weekend because your commute is all of 10 seconds. This is absolutely unhealthy behavior, but my WFH problems have never been because I'm slacking off since I'm at home. People with integrity will work. People without integrity will find ways of avoiding work. Location doesn't matter. Hire or work with the former; avoid the latter.
    - benatkin 4y ago
      I'll see your anecdote and raise you a few productive companies that have RTO policies: - Apple: https://www.fastcompany.com/90781330/apple-return-to-office-rto-tech-plans https://www.fastcompany.com/90781330/apple-return-to-office-... - Amazon: https://www.cnbc.com/2023/02/17/amazon-employees-asked-to-be-in-office-three-days-a-week-andy-jassy.html https://www.cnbc.com/2023/02/17/amazon-employees-asked-to-be... - Microsoft: https://www.nytimes.com/2022/02/14/technology/microsoft-rto.html https://www.nytimes.com/2022/02/14/technology/microsoft-rto.... Why should your anecdote be stronger than this?
      - headsoup 4y ago
        Because the large companies have other incentives in promoting office work as the better solution.