4 ms·

I don’t want to get pulled down this road too far, but this all powerful trans lobby argument angers me a bit. If the trans lobby was so all powerful maybe one

I don’t want to get pulled down this road too far, but this all powerful trans lobby argument angers me a bit. If the trans lobby was so all powerful maybe one of the major 2024 presidential contenders wouldn’t be basing their candidacy partially on bashing them. If the trans lobby was so all powerful maybe less states would be attempting to outright ban them in the guise of banning drag. If the trans lobby was so powerful maybe the comedians they cancel would have to do more than make it part of their bit how “cancelled” they are. I think there are absolutely social circles where people will look down on you for being what they consider transphobic. And enough people in places of power in companies are of this group that the companies worry, but by the same argument you could place say racial minorities as a sacred caste and I think we all mostly can recognize that that isn’t generally true.

DoctorOW 4y ago
> by the same argument you could place say racial minorities as a sacred caste and I think we all mostly can recognize that that isn’t generally true The people who believe trans people are in the simultaneous all-powerful/incredibly weak position are primed to believe that about pretty much any minority group.
mindslight 4y ago
TBF, OP didn't make the characterization of "all powerful", rather you did. The problem is exactly the polarization you've referenced. The red tribe (or at least some extremist segment of it) has decided that attacking trans people is a good thing, rationalized as defending their own values, but really to create an outgroup for their lizard-brain purposes. The blue tribe has correctly characterized this as unjust and unkind... while an extremist segment of the blue tribe has decided to attack anyone who talks about the topic in the wrong context, rationalized as fighting the aforementioned injustice, but really to create an outgroup for their own lizard-brain purposes. The answer is to openly reject both camps of extremists, regardless of whether one is more aligned with your latent tribe.
- space_fountain 4y ago
  OP said if I recall that it’s telling or something about what happens when you critique the sacred caste. Idk exactly what they meant by that, but knowing what I know about what “caste” mean and having heard quotes by Fox News personalities along the lines of the people who can’t be criticized shows where the powers in society actually is idk that all powerful was that much of a stretch
  - mindslight 4y ago
    It seems like you're just pattern matching OP's comment to other arguments that were phrased similarly. Fox News, like all politicians, uses justifiable criticism to guide people to unreasonable conclusions. Objectively, it's not wrong to analogize this topic in terms of traditional social organizations, as it's essentially new dressings on age old power dynamics. The original comment stated a criticism, but did not leverage that into an attack. Assigning the commenter to your outgroup based on the criticism is exactly the dynamic of polarization, which ultimately just perpetuates the extremism. Ideally, people with affinity for the blue tribe should be the loudest calling out these new speech-policing authoritarians, just as people with affinity for the red tribe should be the loudest calling out those that attack trans people.
    - DoctorOW 4y ago
      If you need the original two comments paraphrased without the hyperbolics: "This example shows that trans people are so powerful that even if you're saying something relatively harmless (the specific joke) on a niche platform (the specific Twitch channel) they will punish you for that." "That's not true. There are major media companies amplifying far more hateful voices with no consequences. Politicians whom are famously dependent on populism, have actually experienced positive outcomes from attacking that group of people."
      - mindslight 4y ago
        There's a difference between a group being a protected class, and being powerful on its own. So your first paraphrasing isn't accurate. The "they" doing the punishing is actually corporate bureaucrats hyper-sensitive to what they perceive might be controversial, in the service of advertising revenue. They and those with ad money are the ones with the power. I'll agree OP did start to step over the line when they said "the" caste - there are many different protected classes, across different contexts.

DoctorOW 4y ago

> by the same argument you could place say racial minorities as a sacred caste and I think we all mostly can recognize that that isn’t generally true The people who believe trans people are in the simultaneous all-powerful/incredibly weak position are primed to believe that about pretty much any minority group.

mindslight 4y ago

TBF, OP didn't make the characterization of "all powerful", rather you did. The problem is exactly the polarization you've referenced. The red tribe (or at least some extremist segment of it) has decided that attacking trans people is a good thing, rationalized as defending their own values, but really to create an outgroup for their lizard-brain purposes. The blue tribe has correctly characterized this as unjust and unkind... while an extremist segment of the blue tribe has decided to attack anyone who talks about the topic in the wrong context, rationalized as fighting the aforementioned injustice, but really to create an outgroup for their own lizard-brain purposes. The answer is to openly reject both camps of extremists, regardless of whether one is more aligned with your latent tribe.

space_fountain 4y ago
OP said if I recall that it’s telling or something about what happens when you critique the sacred caste. Idk exactly what they meant by that, but knowing what I know about what “caste” mean and having heard quotes by Fox News personalities along the lines of the people who can’t be criticized shows where the powers in society actually is idk that all powerful was that much of a stretch
- mindslight 4y ago
  It seems like you're just pattern matching OP's comment to other arguments that were phrased similarly. Fox News, like all politicians, uses justifiable criticism to guide people to unreasonable conclusions. Objectively, it's not wrong to analogize this topic in terms of traditional social organizations, as it's essentially new dressings on age old power dynamics. The original comment stated a criticism, but did not leverage that into an attack. Assigning the commenter to your outgroup based on the criticism is exactly the dynamic of polarization, which ultimately just perpetuates the extremism. Ideally, people with affinity for the blue tribe should be the loudest calling out these new speech-policing authoritarians, just as people with affinity for the red tribe should be the loudest calling out those that attack trans people.
  - DoctorOW 4y ago
    If you need the original two comments paraphrased without the hyperbolics: "This example shows that trans people are so powerful that even if you're saying something relatively harmless (the specific joke) on a niche platform (the specific Twitch channel) they will punish you for that." "That's not true. There are major media companies amplifying far more hateful voices with no consequences. Politicians whom are famously dependent on populism, have actually experienced positive outcomes from attacking that group of people."
    - mindslight 4y ago
      There's a difference between a group being a protected class, and being powerful on its own. So your first paraphrasing isn't accurate. The "they" doing the punishing is actually corporate bureaucrats hyper-sensitive to what they perceive might be controversial, in the service of advertising revenue. They and those with ad money are the ones with the power. I'll agree OP did start to step over the line when they said "the" caste - there are many different protected classes, across different contexts.