4 ms·

I live in the EU, understand how it works, and that's why I hate it, and I want my country out of it ASAP :)

by 988747 4y ago

alright_scowl 4y ago
I think the benefits far outweigh the downsides. To be frank, I think a big chunk of its problems is that it is not integrated enough. Then again, my perspective is from someone not originally from Europe, that chose to migrate here and declined job offers from the US even though I would receive considerably more money had I accepted. I have zero regrets, by the way. So take my opinion as one without the social nuance from someone born here.
- panick21_ 4y ago
  I think many of the benefits could be achieved with better methods, other then putting a French style barley democratic bureaucracy on top of all existing democracies. The reality is also that almost non of the people in the countries were actually asked if they wanted to join. There is a difference between being pro European integration and pro existing EU structure.
  - kazen44 4y ago
    how where people not asked if they wanted to join? mind you, European integration is a major political pillar in national politics of basically all countries inside of europe and its periphery. People vote on parties based on there political program, and most people seem to want to vast economic benefits being a member states brings. (heck, ukraine is basically fighting a war at the moment about an issue which basically boils down to European integration). People definetly had a say if they wanted EU membership through the political process of there country. The only case where this is a bit of a grey area is of the founding countries of the precursor of the EU. (european community of coal and steel). Most of those measures got passed as policy without a lot of democratic process by the populance. But we cannot change the past, and considering the state of most of europe during the 1950's i wouldn't judge them so harshly for it.
    - panick21_ 4y ago
      I mean those problems are well understood. There are not that many parties to vote for and people vote for the party they dislike least. Some of those parties wanted to join the EU. In general it was elites that wanted to join the EU, not the party base. People might have voted social domestic because they wanted domestic labor laws but instead their country was integrated in essentially a super-national state. The reality is most people vote primary for domestic polices, and the extent what the EU would do was not understood by voters at the time. There is a difference in initially joining and then having very little choice in the continue growth of that institutions power. And in fact, in many places where aspects of the EU were put to a popular vote it actually fails. There is also the reality that things like the EU/Euro were political projects and that Germany after the Cold War had to agree to some of these things in order for France and Britain to accept its unification. People certainty were not asked if Eastern nations should be allowed to join the EU. Again, shouldn't a popular vote be in order when an institution like the EU considers adding a new member that can massively impact its economy and will receive untold billions in subsidies? I'm Swiss so for me, a decision of such huge importance should actually be based on a popular vote. Not 'well in the 70s leftist parties were broadly more popular'. And once you are in, its incredibly hard to get out, and that is by design. A real European Union based on fundamentally pro European pro Democracy principles would have been established over many steps and many votes. This would give some granularity to the choices. Maybe the population like one aspect of the many EU polices, but not the other. In Switzerland we rejected the EG, but we joined Schengen, both based on popular vote. We join institutions such as ESA and many others. That seems to me to be a much better process of incrementally growing together. > the state of most of europe during the 1950's i wouldn't judge them so harshly for it. Lets not pretend the EU was formed in the 1950s.
      - alright_scowl 4y ago
        > There are not that many parties to vote for and people vote for the party they dislike least This is democracy at its finest.
  - alright_scowl 4y ago
    How exactly is it just "barely" democratic?
realworldperson 4y ago
[dead]
hkt 4y ago
As a British person, I'd suggest you reconsider. Things over here are not so rosy. Drugs shortages, crazy inflation, no discernible benefits at all except to a government that hates judicial oversight of any kind.
- TheNotToo 4y ago
  Can you share more about this 'drug shortage'? Is it like the empty shop shelves and empty fuel pumps that is claimed to still exist for years now despite being resolved within days/weeks at the time?
  - inglor_cz 4y ago
    IDK about the UK, but in Czechia, we had a shortage of, among others, antibiotics, only very recently alleviated. At the worst times, you could phone to thirty pharmacies with a relatively standard recipe (Augmentin etc.) and be turned away everywhere. Been there, done that.
- dageshi 4y ago
  I think inflation in the EU is roughly at the same level as the UK right now. edit: apparently this is a controversial statement
  - weberer 4y ago
    Its actually higher than in the UK. https://tradingeconomics.com/country-list/inflation-rate?continent=europe https://tradingeconomics.com/country-list/inflation-rate?con...
    - TheNotToo 4y ago
      I see Sweden the "utopia" that some claim has even higher inflation than UK, I guess that must be because of Brexit too right? And Italy, the land of the great food?
      - 4y ago
junofan 4y ago
I think most Americans have literally no opinions about the EU. I’ve always assumed anybody talking about it lives there. It’s virtually absent from our lives here.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- azinman2 4y ago
  I’m American and my opinion is EU good. Also euro expanding east bad; single currency for radically different economies doesn’t work out well in theory and practice, ends up saddling everyone with a lot of debt since inflation in just Greece isn’t an option for France.
wafngar 4y ago
What concrete advantage would it have for you?

I live in the EU, understand how it works, and that's why I hate it, and I want my country out of it ASAP :)

by 988747 4y ago

I live in the EU, understand how it works, and that's why I hate it, and I want my country out of it ASAP :)

I think the benefits far outweigh the downsides. To be frank, I think a big chunk of its problems is that it is not integrated enough. Then again, my perspective is from someone not originally from Europe, that chose to migrate here and declined job offers from the US even though I would receive considerably more money had I accepted. I have zero regrets, by the way. So take my opinion as one without the social nuance from someone born here.

panick21_ 4y ago
I think many of the benefits could be achieved with better methods, other then putting a French style barley democratic bureaucracy on top of all existing democracies. The reality is also that almost non of the people in the countries were actually asked if they wanted to join. There is a difference between being pro European integration and pro existing EU structure.
- kazen44 4y ago
  how where people not asked if they wanted to join? mind you, European integration is a major political pillar in national politics of basically all countries inside of europe and its periphery. People vote on parties based on there political program, and most people seem to want to vast economic benefits being a member states brings. (heck, ukraine is basically fighting a war at the moment about an issue which basically boils down to European integration). People definetly had a say if they wanted EU membership through the political process of there country. The only case where this is a bit of a grey area is of the founding countries of the precursor of the EU. (european community of coal and steel). Most of those measures got passed as policy without a lot of democratic process by the populance. But we cannot change the past, and considering the state of most of europe during the 1950's i wouldn't judge them so harshly for it.
  - panick21_ 4y ago
    I mean those problems are well understood. There are not that many parties to vote for and people vote for the party they dislike least. Some of those parties wanted to join the EU. In general it was elites that wanted to join the EU, not the party base. People might have voted social domestic because they wanted domestic labor laws but instead their country was integrated in essentially a super-national state. The reality is most people vote primary for domestic polices, and the extent what the EU would do was not understood by voters at the time. There is a difference in initially joining and then having very little choice in the continue growth of that institutions power. And in fact, in many places where aspects of the EU were put to a popular vote it actually fails. There is also the reality that things like the EU/Euro were political projects and that Germany after the Cold War had to agree to some of these things in order for France and Britain to accept its unification. People certainty were not asked if Eastern nations should be allowed to join the EU. Again, shouldn't a popular vote be in order when an institution like the EU considers adding a new member that can massively impact its economy and will receive untold billions in subsidies? I'm Swiss so for me, a decision of such huge importance should actually be based on a popular vote. Not 'well in the 70s leftist parties were broadly more popular'. And once you are in, its incredibly hard to get out, and that is by design. A real European Union based on fundamentally pro European pro Democracy principles would have been established over many steps and many votes. This would give some granularity to the choices. Maybe the population like one aspect of the many EU polices, but not the other. In Switzerland we rejected the EG, but we joined Schengen, both based on popular vote. We join institutions such as ESA and many others. That seems to me to be a much better process of incrementally growing together. > the state of most of europe during the 1950's i wouldn't judge them so harshly for it. Lets not pretend the EU was formed in the 1950s.
    - alright_scowl 4y ago
      > There are not that many parties to vote for and people vote for the party they dislike least This is democracy at its finest.
- alright_scowl 4y ago
  How exactly is it just "barely" democratic?

realworldperson 4y ago

[dead]

hkt 4y ago

As a British person, I'd suggest you reconsider. Things over here are not so rosy. Drugs shortages, crazy inflation, no discernible benefits at all except to a government that hates judicial oversight of any kind.

TheNotToo 4y ago
Can you share more about this 'drug shortage'? Is it like the empty shop shelves and empty fuel pumps that is claimed to still exist for years now despite being resolved within days/weeks at the time?
- inglor_cz 4y ago
  IDK about the UK, but in Czechia, we had a shortage of, among others, antibiotics, only very recently alleviated. At the worst times, you could phone to thirty pharmacies with a relatively standard recipe (Augmentin etc.) and be turned away everywhere. Been there, done that.
dageshi 4y ago
I think inflation in the EU is roughly at the same level as the UK right now. edit: apparently this is a controversial statement
- weberer 4y ago
  Its actually higher than in the UK. https://tradingeconomics.com/country-list/inflation-rate?continent=europe https://tradingeconomics.com/country-list/inflation-rate?con...
  - TheNotToo 4y ago
    I see Sweden the "utopia" that some claim has even higher inflation than UK, I guess that must be because of Brexit too right? And Italy, the land of the great food?
    - 4y ago

junofan 4y ago

I think most Americans have literally no opinions about the EU. I’ve always assumed anybody talking about it lives there. It’s virtually absent from our lives here.

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
azinman2 4y ago
I’m American and my opinion is EU good. Also euro expanding east bad; single currency for radically different economies doesn’t work out well in theory and practice, ends up saddling everyone with a lot of debt since inflation in just Greece isn’t an option for France.

wafngar 4y ago

What concrete advantage would it have for you?