6 ms·

Windows 11 Slapping a Watermark on 'Unsupported' PCs

34 points by bubblehack3r 4y ago

josephcsible 4y ago
If your Windows installation is working fine despite not meeting the "minimum" "requirements", then Microsoft was lying when they said those were the minimum requirements.
- zamadatix 4y ago
  They are the minimum requirements to upgrade, be supported, and use all of the features not the minimum requirements for it to boot. Not using e.g. the Windows Hello login flow doesn't mean you were lied to about the requirements.
  - josephcsible 4y ago
    Why should the minimum requirements for the baseline OS include things that are only actually necessary if you want to use optional features like Hello?
    - zamadatix 4y ago
      Because the requirement defines what is supported not what subset works well enough for a particular individual to be happy enough using it today. As much as I think the minimum requirements are overbearing (particularly the CPU one, there are unsupported models with the same feature set as supported models) I have no problem with the concept of notifying me that I'm outside of the minimum requirements for support. If Microsoft wants to continue expanding the use of things like TPM for portions of the OS or doesn't want to guarantee old instruction set baselines will be used for the entire support lifecycle then I'd rather they be upfront about letting me know.
    - waste_monk 4y ago
      They want to make these things mandatory at some point. The frog must be boiled ever so slowly.
  - nehal3m 4y ago
    You are describing adhering to optimal requirements.
    - deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]
    - zamadatix 4y ago
      There are definitely optimal requirements outside of the minimum requirements but keep in mind what is optimal and what is minimal is going to be different between "supported" and "currently working" installs.
- yongjik 4y ago
  Minimum requirements don't work like that. If you buy a TV that requires minimum temperature of 40°F, and you find that yours work at 25°F, that doesn't mean the manufacturer was lying.
  - josephcsible 4y ago
    Different copies of the same software don't have random variations like different pieces of the same hardware do.
    - yongjik 4y ago
      Considering how many different combinations of PC components and applications Windows is expected to support, you might as well call it random variation.
    - wtallis 4y ago
      The TV analogy isn't really about random variation between devices. Running a device way outside its specified temperature range may appear to work fine at first but lead to premature failure or subtle problems that aren't as easy for an end user to spot. By analogy, coercing Windows 11 to boot on unsupported hardware may work fine at the moment (for the subset of features you care about enough to test), but Microsoft makes no commitment that it will continue to run that well in the future. They may introduce new features that do not function on your unsupported hardware, or they may drop workarounds for known bugs or security vulnerabilities in your hardware. Or maybe Windows 11 will continue to work fine on that hardware for years to come, but Microsoft doesn't want to put any QA effort into guaranteeing that.
      - josephcsible 4y ago
        > Running a device way outside its specified temperature range may appear to work fine at first but lead to premature failure or subtle problems that aren't as easy for an end user to spot. The point was that operating hardware outside of its limits might work for me but not for you, and it might suddenly break for seemingly no reason later. But with software, if I can run Windows 11 without a TPM, then you'll definitely be able to, and there's nothing to wear out or change over time that could break that other than an update.
LegitShady 4y ago
It seems windows 11 doesn't support my i5-7600k, so I'll have to build another computer or figure out an alternative to windows before windows 10 reaches end of life.
- ChuckNorris89 4y ago
  It will work just fine. I installed it on my old 6300K chip.
- TowerTall 4y ago
  Windows 10 will receive patches and updates for many-many-many years to come. There are simple too many win 10 users making it practically impossible for Microsoft to end of life it anytime soon.
  - LegitShady 4y ago
    Windows 10 EOL is October 2025 unless you're paying for out of life support from msft, which I'm not.
    - TowerTall 4y ago
      i bet that deadline will be moved several years out into the future.
Clubber 4y ago
That's obnoxious. Why does Microsoft constantly smear shit all over it's flagship product every release?
- sublinear 4y ago
  legal liability
  - nixgeek 4y ago
    What liability do you perceive Microsoft might have from an end user who bypassed software mechanisms to prevent installation on unsupported hardware?
  - hulitu 4y ago
    This is a joke. At least in EU.
ChuckNorris89 4y ago
From the Gizmodo author: >I am still holding off on installing Windows 11 Do we also have a journalistic opinion from someone who actually bothered to install Windows 11 on a non supported PC to actually verify this? No defending Windows 11 but the whole article is just a lazy opinionated piece without any proper journalistic research. Gizmodo is as reliable as Buzzfeed. I'm wondering how such lazy journalism ends up on HN front page. I guess since Win 11 is the tech community's favorite punching bag, HN will upvote any realated FUD on this matter, just like the TPM FUD that was floating around here. Anecdotally, I have installed Win 11 on my parents laptop which is officially not supported, and have not seen any watermark yet.
- zamadatix 4y ago
  The linked source from this makes for a much better summary https://www.windowslatest.com/2023/02/14/windows-11-system-requirements-not-met-watermark-is-reportedly-rolling-out/ https://www.windowslatest.com/2023/02/14/windows-11-system-r... and mentions it seems to be on an A/B rollout.
  - ChuckNorris89 4y ago
    That's a much better article than Gizmodo.
voldacar 4y ago
Is it possible to find the binary that does this and nop out the offending function? How would you approach this with a debugger?
- zamadatix 4y ago
  As weird as it sounds there are usually registry keys that control this kind of behavior. I haven't verified if this particular one works on the GA version but it worked in the Insider version: HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Control Panel\UnsupportedHardwareNotificationCache -> DWORD "SV2" with a value of 0. If you go the "modify system files by hand" part you have to jump through hoops to disable security and signing features, not to mention it'll be overwritten via updates.
  - binarycrusader 4y ago
    There’s an official group policy to control this messaging: https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/topic/kb5017130-managing-windows-11-system-requirements-not-met-message-in-your-organization-f751d24b-a70c-4a18-9eec-dae0790e41f5 https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/topic/kb5017130-managing...
    - voldacar 4y ago
      Thank you so much. I always struggle to find obscure registry settings
AshamedCaptain 4y ago
> Note that this has its downsides, like voiding the software warranty on your machine. Yes. "Software warranty". On commercial, boxed software. They could as well have warned "this will put you on Santa's naughty list".

34 points by bubblehack3r 4y ago

If your Windows installation is working fine despite not meeting the "minimum" "requirements", then Microsoft was lying when they said those were the minimum requirements.

zamadatix 4y ago
They are the minimum requirements to upgrade, be supported, and use all of the features not the minimum requirements for it to boot. Not using e.g. the Windows Hello login flow doesn't mean you were lied to about the requirements.
- josephcsible 4y ago
  Why should the minimum requirements for the baseline OS include things that are only actually necessary if you want to use optional features like Hello?
  - zamadatix 4y ago
    Because the requirement defines what is supported not what subset works well enough for a particular individual to be happy enough using it today. As much as I think the minimum requirements are overbearing (particularly the CPU one, there are unsupported models with the same feature set as supported models) I have no problem with the concept of notifying me that I'm outside of the minimum requirements for support. If Microsoft wants to continue expanding the use of things like TPM for portions of the OS or doesn't want to guarantee old instruction set baselines will be used for the entire support lifecycle then I'd rather they be upfront about letting me know.
  - waste_monk 4y ago
    They want to make these things mandatory at some point. The frog must be boiled ever so slowly.
- nehal3m 4y ago
  You are describing adhering to optimal requirements.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
  - zamadatix 4y ago
    There are definitely optimal requirements outside of the minimum requirements but keep in mind what is optimal and what is minimal is going to be different between "supported" and "currently working" installs.
yongjik 4y ago
Minimum requirements don't work like that. If you buy a TV that requires minimum temperature of 40°F, and you find that yours work at 25°F, that doesn't mean the manufacturer was lying.
- josephcsible 4y ago
  Different copies of the same software don't have random variations like different pieces of the same hardware do.
  - yongjik 4y ago
    Considering how many different combinations of PC components and applications Windows is expected to support, you might as well call it random variation.
  - wtallis 4y ago
    The TV analogy isn't really about random variation between devices. Running a device way outside its specified temperature range may appear to work fine at first but lead to premature failure or subtle problems that aren't as easy for an end user to spot. By analogy, coercing Windows 11 to boot on unsupported hardware may work fine at the moment (for the subset of features you care about enough to test), but Microsoft makes no commitment that it will continue to run that well in the future. They may introduce new features that do not function on your unsupported hardware, or they may drop workarounds for known bugs or security vulnerabilities in your hardware. Or maybe Windows 11 will continue to work fine on that hardware for years to come, but Microsoft doesn't want to put any QA effort into guaranteeing that.
    - josephcsible 4y ago
      > Running a device way outside its specified temperature range may appear to work fine at first but lead to premature failure or subtle problems that aren't as easy for an end user to spot. The point was that operating hardware outside of its limits might work for me but not for you, and it might suddenly break for seemingly no reason later. But with software, if I can run Windows 11 without a TPM, then you'll definitely be able to, and there's nothing to wear out or change over time that could break that other than an update.

LegitShady 4y ago

It seems windows 11 doesn't support my i5-7600k, so I'll have to build another computer or figure out an alternative to windows before windows 10 reaches end of life.

ChuckNorris89 4y ago
It will work just fine. I installed it on my old 6300K chip.
TowerTall 4y ago
Windows 10 will receive patches and updates for many-many-many years to come. There are simple too many win 10 users making it practically impossible for Microsoft to end of life it anytime soon.
- LegitShady 4y ago
  Windows 10 EOL is October 2025 unless you're paying for out of life support from msft, which I'm not.
  - TowerTall 4y ago
    i bet that deadline will be moved several years out into the future.

Clubber 4y ago

That's obnoxious. Why does Microsoft constantly smear shit all over it's flagship product every release?

sublinear 4y ago
legal liability
- nixgeek 4y ago
  What liability do you perceive Microsoft might have from an end user who bypassed software mechanisms to prevent installation on unsupported hardware?
- hulitu 4y ago
  This is a joke. At least in EU.

ChuckNorris89 4y ago

From the Gizmodo author: >I am still holding off on installing Windows 11 Do we also have a journalistic opinion from someone who actually bothered to install Windows 11 on a non supported PC to actually verify this? No defending Windows 11 but the whole article is just a lazy opinionated piece without any proper journalistic research. Gizmodo is as reliable as Buzzfeed. I'm wondering how such lazy journalism ends up on HN front page. I guess since Win 11 is the tech community's favorite punching bag, HN will upvote any realated FUD on this matter, just like the TPM FUD that was floating around here. Anecdotally, I have installed Win 11 on my parents laptop which is officially not supported, and have not seen any watermark yet.

zamadatix 4y ago
The linked source from this makes for a much better summary https://www.windowslatest.com/2023/02/14/windows-11-system-requirements-not-met-watermark-is-reportedly-rolling-out/ https://www.windowslatest.com/2023/02/14/windows-11-system-r... and mentions it seems to be on an A/B rollout.
- ChuckNorris89 4y ago
  That's a much better article than Gizmodo.

voldacar 4y ago

Is it possible to find the binary that does this and nop out the offending function? How would you approach this with a debugger?

zamadatix 4y ago
As weird as it sounds there are usually registry keys that control this kind of behavior. I haven't verified if this particular one works on the GA version but it worked in the Insider version: HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Control Panel\UnsupportedHardwareNotificationCache -> DWORD "SV2" with a value of 0. If you go the "modify system files by hand" part you have to jump through hoops to disable security and signing features, not to mention it'll be overwritten via updates.
- binarycrusader 4y ago
  There’s an official group policy to control this messaging: https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/topic/kb5017130-managing-windows-11-system-requirements-not-met-message-in-your-organization-f751d24b-a70c-4a18-9eec-dae0790e41f5 https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/topic/kb5017130-managing...
  - voldacar 4y ago
    Thank you so much. I always struggle to find obscure registry settings

AshamedCaptain 4y ago

> Note that this has its downsides, like voiding the software warranty on your machine. Yes. "Software warranty". On commercial, boxed software. They could as well have warned "this will put you on Santa's naughty list".