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I didn't even think the joke was particularly transphobic. Jerry Seinfeld's AI simulacrum was the butt a joke about how bad stand up comedians make lazy and me

I didn't even think the joke was particularly transphobic. Jerry Seinfeld's AI simulacrum was the butt a joke about how bad stand up comedians make lazy and mean jokes about groups like liberals, trans people, and gay men (for whatever reason this article only mentions one of those groups)

mindslight 4y ago
Exactly. The more analogous offense is claiming to interpret scripture without the help of a priest. Plebs repeating what the clergy says is fine. Plebs coming up with their own ideas, even when they effectively agree with the clergy, is still a threat. Nothing to do but patiently wait for the social/technical changes that will make these not-even-wrong would-be priests (of both blue and red flavors) irrelevant again.
flangola7 4y ago
I agree, but there's a difference between a human and an AI making that joke. A human who makes clever jokes poking fun at bigoted expressions will probably continue to do so. A language model is liable to forget to be clever 30 minutes later and say something bigoted without a punchline. Obviously Twitch would like to prevent this.
- Rebelgecko 4y ago
  I've been thinking about this a bit. Some people believe that depictions of x behavior are supporting x. Not a super common belief but I've seen more people say it with a straight face over time (Eg a movie with a character who says racist things is inherently racist. See the IASIP episode that was removed from streaming). Which is patently ridiculous... Schindler's List depicts some of the worst acts of antisemitism ever, but the movie itself is obviosly not antisemitic. So what's the difference between Schindler's List and an actually antisemitic movie, like Hebrews To Negroes? I think it comes down to the creator's intent. In Schindler's List, you're not supposed to agree with the antisemitic stuff that happens. It's bad and wrong. In Hebrews To Negroes, the antisemitisn is depicted as good and correct. When you have a large language model creating your art, how do you make that determination of "intent"?
gweinberg 4y ago
Whereas brilliant witty ones make jokes about how dumb conservatives are? No wonder most of the audience didn't get the joke. You can tell a joke where you say something "outrageous" and everyone is laughing, half the audience is laughing because the joke is "there are actually people that believe that" and the other half is laughing because "it's true but you're not allowed to say it". Or you can do it backwards, and half the audience is thinking "that's not funny, it's just mean", and the other half is thinking "I don't even see anything tat's trying to be a joke".

mindslight 4y ago

Exactly. The more analogous offense is claiming to interpret scripture without the help of a priest. Plebs repeating what the clergy says is fine. Plebs coming up with their own ideas, even when they effectively agree with the clergy, is still a threat. Nothing to do but patiently wait for the social/technical changes that will make these not-even-wrong would-be priests (of both blue and red flavors) irrelevant again.

flangola7 4y ago

I agree, but there's a difference between a human and an AI making that joke. A human who makes clever jokes poking fun at bigoted expressions will probably continue to do so. A language model is liable to forget to be clever 30 minutes later and say something bigoted without a punchline. Obviously Twitch would like to prevent this.

Rebelgecko 4y ago
I've been thinking about this a bit. Some people believe that depictions of x behavior are supporting x. Not a super common belief but I've seen more people say it with a straight face over time (Eg a movie with a character who says racist things is inherently racist. See the IASIP episode that was removed from streaming). Which is patently ridiculous... Schindler's List depicts some of the worst acts of antisemitism ever, but the movie itself is obviosly not antisemitic. So what's the difference between Schindler's List and an actually antisemitic movie, like Hebrews To Negroes? I think it comes down to the creator's intent. In Schindler's List, you're not supposed to agree with the antisemitic stuff that happens. It's bad and wrong. In Hebrews To Negroes, the antisemitisn is depicted as good and correct. When you have a large language model creating your art, how do you make that determination of "intent"?

gweinberg 4y ago

Whereas brilliant witty ones make jokes about how dumb conservatives are? No wonder most of the audience didn't get the joke. You can tell a joke where you say something "outrageous" and everyone is laughing, half the audience is laughing because the joke is "there are actually people that believe that" and the other half is laughing because "it's true but you're not allowed to say it". Or you can do it backwards, and half the audience is thinking "that's not funny, it's just mean", and the other half is thinking "I don't even see anything tat's trying to be a joke".