3 ms·

But we've got decades of data from health insurance before Obamacare. It isn't like things were peachy before that.

WalterBright 4y ago
Health insurance diverged from free markets back in the 1940s when health care got tied to your job due to the way it was taxed.
- UncleMeat 4y ago
  That's still a market economy rather than a command economy. If you want, I can point at gazillions of other industries where markets have led to obviously suboptimal outcomes. Command economies have major problems and may be worse in almost all circumstances but "markets make everything good" is just observably false.
  - dnissley 4y ago
    I thought the way that health insurance got tied to employment was through government incentives for employers to do so? E.g. not being taxed when provided as a benefit
    - UncleMeat 4y ago
      That's still a market. Employers choose among many different insurance options. Employees choose employers in part because of benefits.
      - WalterBright 4y ago
        The government distortion of the market via tax policy made it much harder to select health insurance providers based on their merits. Noting this makes it inaccurate to assign blame for such failing on the free market.
        UncleMeat 4y ago
        Government distortion doesn't make it a command economy. Whatever you want to call it, the thing that we have and the thing that libertarians want observably produces shit outcomes in a number of domains. If I can't blame the free market, I can blame the political advocates who claim to want a free market for the specific outcomes of their policies.
  - nickpp 4y ago
    > I can point at gazillions of other industries where markets have led to obviously suboptimal outcomes Please do.
    - UncleMeat 4y ago
      Digital advertising is a fun one. Creating the markets for information birthed surveillance capitalism.
      - nickpp 4y ago
        > Digital advertising > obviously suboptimal outcomes I find targeted ads obviously superior to generic ones. And "surveillance capitalism" is so far just a derogatory term for which I am still waiting to see any actual, real-world downsides. Unlike, say, "surveillance state" which is a horrifying nightmare I had the bad luck to experience.

Health insurance diverged from free markets back in the 1940s when health care got tied to your job due to the way it was taxed.

UncleMeat 4y ago
That's still a market economy rather than a command economy. If you want, I can point at gazillions of other industries where markets have led to obviously suboptimal outcomes. Command economies have major problems and may be worse in almost all circumstances but "markets make everything good" is just observably false.
- dnissley 4y ago
  I thought the way that health insurance got tied to employment was through government incentives for employers to do so? E.g. not being taxed when provided as a benefit
  - UncleMeat 4y ago
    That's still a market. Employers choose among many different insurance options. Employees choose employers in part because of benefits.
    - WalterBright 4y ago
      The government distortion of the market via tax policy made it much harder to select health insurance providers based on their merits. Noting this makes it inaccurate to assign blame for such failing on the free market.
      - UncleMeat 4y ago
        Government distortion doesn't make it a command economy. Whatever you want to call it, the thing that we have and the thing that libertarians want observably produces shit outcomes in a number of domains. If I can't blame the free market, I can blame the political advocates who claim to want a free market for the specific outcomes of their policies.
- nickpp 4y ago
  > I can point at gazillions of other industries where markets have led to obviously suboptimal outcomes Please do.
  - UncleMeat 4y ago
    Digital advertising is a fun one. Creating the markets for information birthed surveillance capitalism.
    - nickpp 4y ago
      > Digital advertising > obviously suboptimal outcomes I find targeted ads obviously superior to generic ones. And "surveillance capitalism" is so far just a derogatory term for which I am still waiting to see any actual, real-world downsides. Unlike, say, "surveillance state" which is a horrifying nightmare I had the bad luck to experience.