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Transparency in terms and branding is a really good idea, but it's probably insufficient. In this scheme, devices marked "A" will effectively be restricted to p

Transparency in terms and branding is a really good idea, but it's probably insufficient. In this scheme, devices marked "A" will effectively be restricted to people with the time to manage local infrastructure--recording cameras, for example, will eventually have disks fail, and at that point the repairs are likely beyond more than a subset of people. Probably a small one, at that. Cloud stuff is here to stay. We deserve clarity in what does use cloud stuff, but we also need legislation that puts a proper fear into bad actors who make expansive promises (and, likely, stronger liability applied to shipping software that needs patching).

JohnFen 4y ago
> at that point the repairs are likely beyond more than a subset of people. Replacing a hard drive trivial, though. But in any case, if someone doesn't want to do such maintenance every decade or so, there are repair shops that will do it for them.
- eropple 4y ago
  A hard drive under constant write load is unlikely to last a decade. And replacing them in some of these devices isn't trivial (even if the physical connector is straightforward, how many of them understand receiving a new drive that needs formatting, how do you get to the panel to do it, etcetera etcetera). In isolation, the smartest thing a hardware vendor could do is make this process difficult so you give up and buy a new one. You could say "well, filter on reviews", but the review space has been drastically compromised with the rise of "influencer" types, too.
  - JohnFen 4y ago
    Interesting. The video system that I use is a cheap one (and doesn't require internet access, but optionally supports it -- I don't even have it on a network of any sort at all). Replacing the hard drive in it couldn't be easier. You do have to remove four screws to get into the box, but once there, you just unplug the old one and plug in the new one. When you power it up, the box notices that the hard drive is new and asks you if you want it to be prepared for use (with requisite warnings about losing any data that may be on it). If you click "Yes," it does what it needs to do and starts using it. Aside from opening the case, my grandmother could handle this without any problem at all. I simply assumed that better systems than mine would be as easy, but perhaps I assumed too much.
alkonaut 4y ago
> In this scheme, devices marked "A" will effectively be restricted to people with the time to manage local infrastructure--recording cameras, for example I think in terms of waste, the key is that devices are still functioning and valuable, even if they aren't as good to the original buyer as they once were. A different cloud service might pop up to replace the one that the smart doorbell maker canceled. Or the initial buyer can sell the smart doorbell to a customer that does have the patience to deal with local recording. It'll always be hard to use tech for non-technical people, but at least avoiding the situation where thousands of functioning gadgets are bricked and thrown away should be possible to achive through regulation.
- eropple 4y ago
  > Or the initial buyer can sell the smart doorbell to a customer that does have the patience to deal with local recording. I think this would require a drastically different consumer mindset. Because I don't think there is a market for used doorbells. > It'll always be hard to use tech for non-technical people As much as I don't like the products, Nest and Ring are not hard to use for non-technical people. They remove the moving parts that may demand maintenance and may cause failures that are beyond a power cycle's reach to fix. In that light, the best regulatory solution is probably to ensconce terms-at-purchase as indefinitely binding for SaaS-attached hardware. No price increases, no end-of-service so long as the company is still in business.

JohnFen 4y ago

> at that point the repairs are likely beyond more than a subset of people. Replacing a hard drive trivial, though. But in any case, if someone doesn't want to do such maintenance every decade or so, there are repair shops that will do it for them.

eropple 4y ago
A hard drive under constant write load is unlikely to last a decade. And replacing them in some of these devices isn't trivial (even if the physical connector is straightforward, how many of them understand receiving a new drive that needs formatting, how do you get to the panel to do it, etcetera etcetera). In isolation, the smartest thing a hardware vendor could do is make this process difficult so you give up and buy a new one. You could say "well, filter on reviews", but the review space has been drastically compromised with the rise of "influencer" types, too.
- JohnFen 4y ago
  Interesting. The video system that I use is a cheap one (and doesn't require internet access, but optionally supports it -- I don't even have it on a network of any sort at all). Replacing the hard drive in it couldn't be easier. You do have to remove four screws to get into the box, but once there, you just unplug the old one and plug in the new one. When you power it up, the box notices that the hard drive is new and asks you if you want it to be prepared for use (with requisite warnings about losing any data that may be on it). If you click "Yes," it does what it needs to do and starts using it. Aside from opening the case, my grandmother could handle this without any problem at all. I simply assumed that better systems than mine would be as easy, but perhaps I assumed too much.

alkonaut 4y ago

> In this scheme, devices marked "A" will effectively be restricted to people with the time to manage local infrastructure--recording cameras, for example I think in terms of waste, the key is that devices are still functioning and valuable, even if they aren't as good to the original buyer as they once were. A different cloud service might pop up to replace the one that the smart doorbell maker canceled. Or the initial buyer can sell the smart doorbell to a customer that does have the patience to deal with local recording. It'll always be hard to use tech for non-technical people, but at least avoiding the situation where thousands of functioning gadgets are bricked and thrown away should be possible to achive through regulation.

eropple 4y ago
> Or the initial buyer can sell the smart doorbell to a customer that does have the patience to deal with local recording. I think this would require a drastically different consumer mindset. Because I don't think there is a market for used doorbells. > It'll always be hard to use tech for non-technical people As much as I don't like the products, Nest and Ring are not hard to use for non-technical people. They remove the moving parts that may demand maintenance and may cause failures that are beyond a power cycle's reach to fix. In that light, the best regulatory solution is probably to ensconce terms-at-purchase as indefinitely binding for SaaS-attached hardware. No price increases, no end-of-service so long as the company is still in business.