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PM working on Headless here. Masking bots is not the reason why the new Headless mode was created. The goal is to provide an headless browser that can be used i

PM working on Headless here. Masking bots is not the reason why the new Headless mode was created. The goal is to provide an headless browser that can be used in web tests. The original Headless is essentially a separate browser implemented in parallel to "proper" Chromium. That results in all sorts of subtle reproducibility problems for developers using Headless for their tests.

ilyt 4y ago
> PM working on Headless here. Masking bots is not the reason why the new Headless mode was created. Right. But it will be massively used just for that.
- literallyroy 4y ago
  Yes, same as many technologies with legitimate uses. Tor is largely used for illegal activities, yet many would say the anonymity it provides for the general public is worth it being created (or the anonymity it provided for US intelligence).
  - ilyt 4y ago
    I'm not chasting anyone for building a piece of cool tech but that does seem like something like a holy grail for bots.
    - richwater 4y ago
      Nice to know you are the arbiter of what is and what isn't a "cool piece of tech"
      - ilyt 4y ago
        I don't know whether you're illiterate or just maliciously misinterpreted what I wrote.
SeanAnderson 4y ago
This is such good news to hear. Browser test automation was a pretty sore spot. I'm excited for your work.
danaris 4y ago
> Masking bots is not the reason why the new Headless mode was created. You might consider looking into some resources on Intent vs Impact (eg, [0]). IMNSHO, anyone working in tech has a responsibility to consider what their creations can be used for, in addition to what they intend them to be used for. There's just too much potential for scalability of nefarious behavior to do otherwise. [0] https://www.masterclass.com/articles/intent-vs-impact https://www.masterclass.com/articles/intent-vs-impact
- tssva 4y ago
  Please reveal what you work on so I can publicly judge whether you have considered and properly chosen between intent vs impact or any other possible moral failings of your work as I see it.
elbigbad 4y ago
PM working on Private Browsing mode here. Watching pornography is not the reason why the new Private Browsing mode was created. The goal is to provide an Private Mode than can be used for Christmas shopping. ;) In all seriousness, despite intentions, and I do love headless mode for actual integration tests with Webdriver, it’s no exaggeration to say that it is likely the single greatest avenue for bots and spam enablement across the entire internet, and imo is probably net Bad.
- dmix 4y ago
  A necessary evil for supporting an open and programmable internet (IMO).
- ufmace 4y ago
  It seems more neutral to me. Yes there's a lot of spam and other types of malicious behavior, but I don't think it's good overall to try to eliminate web automation entirely to stop it.
- zarzavat 4y ago
  If it weren't for bots there would be no search engines, no internet archive, no WWW. Bots, and the tools for making them, are essential to the functioning of the web.

ilyt 4y ago

> PM working on Headless here. Masking bots is not the reason why the new Headless mode was created. Right. But it will be massively used just for that.

literallyroy 4y ago
Yes, same as many technologies with legitimate uses. Tor is largely used for illegal activities, yet many would say the anonymity it provides for the general public is worth it being created (or the anonymity it provided for US intelligence).
- ilyt 4y ago
  I'm not chasting anyone for building a piece of cool tech but that does seem like something like a holy grail for bots.
  - richwater 4y ago
    Nice to know you are the arbiter of what is and what isn't a "cool piece of tech"
    - ilyt 4y ago
      I don't know whether you're illiterate or just maliciously misinterpreted what I wrote.

SeanAnderson 4y ago

This is such good news to hear. Browser test automation was a pretty sore spot. I'm excited for your work.

danaris 4y ago

> Masking bots is not the reason why the new Headless mode was created. You might consider looking into some resources on Intent vs Impact (eg, [0]). IMNSHO, anyone working in tech has a responsibility to consider what their creations can be used for, in addition to what they intend them to be used for. There's just too much potential for scalability of nefarious behavior to do otherwise. [0] https://www.masterclass.com/articles/intent-vs-impact https://www.masterclass.com/articles/intent-vs-impact

tssva 4y ago
Please reveal what you work on so I can publicly judge whether you have considered and properly chosen between intent vs impact or any other possible moral failings of your work as I see it.

elbigbad 4y ago

PM working on Private Browsing mode here. Watching pornography is not the reason why the new Private Browsing mode was created. The goal is to provide an Private Mode than can be used for Christmas shopping. ;) In all seriousness, despite intentions, and I do love headless mode for actual integration tests with Webdriver, it’s no exaggeration to say that it is likely the single greatest avenue for bots and spam enablement across the entire internet, and imo is probably net Bad.

dmix 4y ago
A necessary evil for supporting an open and programmable internet (IMO).
ufmace 4y ago
It seems more neutral to me. Yes there's a lot of spam and other types of malicious behavior, but I don't think it's good overall to try to eliminate web automation entirely to stop it.
zarzavat 4y ago
If it weren't for bots there would be no search engines, no internet archive, no WWW. Bots, and the tools for making them, are essential to the functioning of the web.