4 ms·

Transparency for the same of transparency isn’t a moral virtue. Having secrets or plans hidden from others is fine and a normal part of society and a well funct

Transparency for the same of transparency isn’t a moral virtue. Having secrets or plans hidden from others is fine and a normal part of society and a well functioning economy.

scotty79 4y ago
Transparecy definitely is a moral virtue and improves working of nearly all sysytems, markets included. However it doesn't arise naturally. It must be forced by external incentive because in the absence of it selfish interests of system participants strongly disincentivises it. When it's forced it benefits all, saving all participants from making bad calls.
- ericmay 4y ago
  I disagree, and you and I both know that it isn’t by our very nature. For example please be transparent about your home address, email, phone number and employee, and annual salary for the last 10 years here. As it relates to companies it stifles innovation for starters. > It must be forced by external incentive because in the absence of it selfish interests of system participants strongly disincentivises it. Are you saying here that transparency must be “forced” because the absence of transparency disincentivizes transparency?
  - scotty79 4y ago
    > annual salary for the last 10 years here. There are places where there's transparency about this. And they don't fare worse than other places. The key is for the transparency to work, everyone needs to be transparent about the thing. Voluntary transparency doesn't work as you noticed. I wouldn't mind having my home address, email, phone number and salary public if everyone elses is too. Transparency doesn't stiffle innovation it allows any innovation to spread quickly across the whole market which enables further innovation. Every innovation is built on the shoulders of what came before. Letting the before stay secret stifles innovation. > Are you saying here that transparency must be “forced” because the absence of transparency disincentivizes transparency? Yes. Exactly. I'm afraid of disclosing my address because published addresses are rare. If my address was one of millions published addresses I would have way fewer objections. People with personal enemies might have more objections but then again if they couldn't hide it would force the society to deal with their oppressors better.
    - ericmay 4y ago
      > Transparency doesn't stiffle innovation it allows any innovation to spread quickly across the whole market which enables further innovation. Not necessarily. It can happen in some cases, but in others it leads to a lack of innovative behavior because you shouldn’t invest in generating trade secrets or better products because you can just wait for your competitor to do so and then just obtain what they do. This is well understood. > There are places where there's transparency about this. And they don't fare worse than other places. What are you basing this claim on? > Yes. Exactly. I'm afraid of disclosing my address because published addresses are rare. Well your address is public record and can be obtained easily, but if transparency is a moral virtue as you claim I find it odd that you need others to engage in moral behavior before you do so. With that being said, I publish my real name and a link to my LinkedIn profile so anyone who reads a comment can attribute it to me (good or bad). I actually find it helps engage better online, so I guess there is some virtue to transparency. Why not do the same in your profile?
      - scotty79 4y ago
        >> There are places where there's transparency about this. And they don't fare worse than other places. > What are you basing this claim on? Continued existence of the entire country of Norway. https://theculturetrip.com/europe/norway/articles/norway-country-public-tax-returns/ https://theculturetrip.com/europe/norway/articles/norway-cou... > Not necessarily. It can happen in some cases, but in others it leads to a lack of innovative behavior because you shouldn’t invest in generating trade secrets or better products because you can just wait for your competitor to do so and then just obtain what they do. This is well understood. It's a theory proposed in the defence of intellectual property system. There's zero actual evidence for it that I know of. But there's evidence that economies that disregarded intelectual property rights can grow and become dominant or at least seriously challenge current leaders. UK, USA, Germany, China and others became what they were and are today by blatantly copying innovation with complete disregard to any intellectual property which they introduced only after they rose to prominence to stifle competition. > transparency is a moral virtue as you claim I find it odd that you need others to engage in moral behavior before you do so People are immoral by nature. Being moral while others are not puts you at a disadvantage. I have no idea why are you surprised by my reluctance. I don't do what you do because it wouldn't bring me any benefit.

Transparency for the same of transparency isn’t a moral virtue. Having secrets or plans hidden from others is fine and a normal part of society and a well functioning economy.

scotty79 4y ago

Transparecy definitely is a moral virtue and improves working of nearly all sysytems, markets included. However it doesn't arise naturally. It must be forced by external incentive because in the absence of it selfish interests of system participants strongly disincentivises it. When it's forced it benefits all, saving all participants from making bad calls.

ericmay 4y ago
I disagree, and you and I both know that it isn’t by our very nature. For example please be transparent about your home address, email, phone number and employee, and annual salary for the last 10 years here. As it relates to companies it stifles innovation for starters. > It must be forced by external incentive because in the absence of it selfish interests of system participants strongly disincentivises it. Are you saying here that transparency must be “forced” because the absence of transparency disincentivizes transparency?
- scotty79 4y ago
  > annual salary for the last 10 years here. There are places where there's transparency about this. And they don't fare worse than other places. The key is for the transparency to work, everyone needs to be transparent about the thing. Voluntary transparency doesn't work as you noticed. I wouldn't mind having my home address, email, phone number and salary public if everyone elses is too. Transparency doesn't stiffle innovation it allows any innovation to spread quickly across the whole market which enables further innovation. Every innovation is built on the shoulders of what came before. Letting the before stay secret stifles innovation. > Are you saying here that transparency must be “forced” because the absence of transparency disincentivizes transparency? Yes. Exactly. I'm afraid of disclosing my address because published addresses are rare. If my address was one of millions published addresses I would have way fewer objections. People with personal enemies might have more objections but then again if they couldn't hide it would force the society to deal with their oppressors better.
  - ericmay 4y ago
    > Transparency doesn't stiffle innovation it allows any innovation to spread quickly across the whole market which enables further innovation. Not necessarily. It can happen in some cases, but in others it leads to a lack of innovative behavior because you shouldn’t invest in generating trade secrets or better products because you can just wait for your competitor to do so and then just obtain what they do. This is well understood. > There are places where there's transparency about this. And they don't fare worse than other places. What are you basing this claim on? > Yes. Exactly. I'm afraid of disclosing my address because published addresses are rare. Well your address is public record and can be obtained easily, but if transparency is a moral virtue as you claim I find it odd that you need others to engage in moral behavior before you do so. With that being said, I publish my real name and a link to my LinkedIn profile so anyone who reads a comment can attribute it to me (good or bad). I actually find it helps engage better online, so I guess there is some virtue to transparency. Why not do the same in your profile?
    - scotty79 4y ago
      >> There are places where there's transparency about this. And they don't fare worse than other places. > What are you basing this claim on? Continued existence of the entire country of Norway. https://theculturetrip.com/europe/norway/articles/norway-country-public-tax-returns/ https://theculturetrip.com/europe/norway/articles/norway-cou... > Not necessarily. It can happen in some cases, but in others it leads to a lack of innovative behavior because you shouldn’t invest in generating trade secrets or better products because you can just wait for your competitor to do so and then just obtain what they do. This is well understood. It's a theory proposed in the defence of intellectual property system. There's zero actual evidence for it that I know of. But there's evidence that economies that disregarded intelectual property rights can grow and become dominant or at least seriously challenge current leaders. UK, USA, Germany, China and others became what they were and are today by blatantly copying innovation with complete disregard to any intellectual property which they introduced only after they rose to prominence to stifle competition. > transparency is a moral virtue as you claim I find it odd that you need others to engage in moral behavior before you do so People are immoral by nature. Being moral while others are not puts you at a disadvantage. I have no idea why are you surprised by my reluctance. I don't do what you do because it wouldn't bring me any benefit.