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> Europe is also so densely populated that full 4g coverage is totally doable. Broadband via fiber (fine, let's save money and use VDSL for the last mile) is t

> Europe is also so densely populated that full 4g coverage is totally doable. Broadband via fiber (fine, let's save money and use VDSL for the last mile) is totally doable for the population centers. But we can't even manage that reliably at scale. In Germany, mobile internet of any speed gets spotty once you're outside of the cities. It's just a sad state of affairs.

peterfirefly 4y ago
Germany's problem is German, not European. Germany also used to have waiting lists of many months for getting an extra line (+ they were expensive). Apparently, that was a Good Thing because it was because the state monopoly was protected against competition from Evil Capitalism (usually Foreign as well). Allow competition and good things will happen.
- luckylion 4y ago
  > Germany's problem is German, not European. I'm not sure if you've noticed who's calling the shots in the EU. Germany's problem is the EU's problem. I often feel like there's a fundamental misunderstanding in German politics which then spreads to EU politics. They make the same basic mistake the Soviets made: believing that people are perfectly rational, don't react to incentives, and will do what's best for everyone if given the chance. Why have competition, you'll just waste resources. If someone says they're not able to work, surely that's true, so just give them money. If we just give billions to academics, surely they'll spend it wisely and get us a first class satellite internet. If we elect someone, it's always wise to give them plenty of power so they can make their job efficiently, there's no way they'd abuse that power. If we establish a bureaucracy, surely they'll focus on being efficient and nobody will try to grow their department beyond necessary just to increase their status.
  - sofixa 4y ago
    > I'm not sure if you've noticed who's calling the shots in the EU. Yeah, the EU. > Germany's problem is the EU's problem. Certainly not with regards to infrastructure. All countries around Germany are strictly better for mobile and broadband infrastructure.
    - hef19898 4y ago
      Cambodia was better almost 15 years ago. That Germany's internet is the mess it is, is purely Germany's fault.
  - peterfirefly 4y ago
    > Germany's problem is the EU's problem. Let me try again: Germany has bad internet because Germany is German, not because the EU forces Germany to be German. I agree with the other sentiment you express: that Germany's bad German ideas cause problems for the entire EU due to Germany's size and influence. France's bad French ideas are of the same dumb variety and they also cause problems for the entire EU due to France's size and influence. All member states have their favourite dumb ideas. That's not much of a problem if they balance out with each other. It's a big problem when they don't. And of course the EU would be better with less German and French influence. The EU would also be better if the UK could Brenter to counter the Big State and Big Planning ideas of not just Germany and France but also Italy, Spain, Greece, Portugal, etc. The "Frugal Four" certainly can't do it alone.
microtonal 4y ago
Broadband via fiber (fine, let's save money and use VDSL for the last mile) is totally doable for the population centers. Why VDSL and why only population centers? 50% of the households in The Netherlands have access to fiber internet. My parents live in a small village and have fiber (their village is about as remote as a remote German village). Heck, they are even hooking up farms out in the fields to fiber. It just takes some subsidies from the government, but it'll last for decades, so it is well worth it. In Germany, mobile internet of any speed gets spotty once you're outside of the cities. It's just a sad state of affairs. Internet is just hopelessly behind in Germany. We have lived in an economically strong area in Southern Germany. But wired broadband was deplorable (slow on paper, even slower and less reliable in practice). And mobile internet is not only spotty, the pricing is insane. E.g. unlimited 5G was 90 Euro per month last time I looked (I pay 25 per month).

peterfirefly 4y ago

Germany's problem is German, not European. Germany also used to have waiting lists of many months for getting an extra line (+ they were expensive). Apparently, that was a Good Thing because it was because the state monopoly was protected against competition from Evil Capitalism (usually Foreign as well). Allow competition and good things will happen.

luckylion 4y ago
> Germany's problem is German, not European. I'm not sure if you've noticed who's calling the shots in the EU. Germany's problem is the EU's problem. I often feel like there's a fundamental misunderstanding in German politics which then spreads to EU politics. They make the same basic mistake the Soviets made: believing that people are perfectly rational, don't react to incentives, and will do what's best for everyone if given the chance. Why have competition, you'll just waste resources. If someone says they're not able to work, surely that's true, so just give them money. If we just give billions to academics, surely they'll spend it wisely and get us a first class satellite internet. If we elect someone, it's always wise to give them plenty of power so they can make their job efficiently, there's no way they'd abuse that power. If we establish a bureaucracy, surely they'll focus on being efficient and nobody will try to grow their department beyond necessary just to increase their status.
- sofixa 4y ago
  > I'm not sure if you've noticed who's calling the shots in the EU. Yeah, the EU. > Germany's problem is the EU's problem. Certainly not with regards to infrastructure. All countries around Germany are strictly better for mobile and broadband infrastructure.
  - hef19898 4y ago
    Cambodia was better almost 15 years ago. That Germany's internet is the mess it is, is purely Germany's fault.
- peterfirefly 4y ago
  > Germany's problem is the EU's problem. Let me try again: Germany has bad internet because Germany is German, not because the EU forces Germany to be German. I agree with the other sentiment you express: that Germany's bad German ideas cause problems for the entire EU due to Germany's size and influence. France's bad French ideas are of the same dumb variety and they also cause problems for the entire EU due to France's size and influence. All member states have their favourite dumb ideas. That's not much of a problem if they balance out with each other. It's a big problem when they don't. And of course the EU would be better with less German and French influence. The EU would also be better if the UK could Brenter to counter the Big State and Big Planning ideas of not just Germany and France but also Italy, Spain, Greece, Portugal, etc. The "Frugal Four" certainly can't do it alone.

microtonal 4y ago

Broadband via fiber (fine, let's save money and use VDSL for the last mile) is totally doable for the population centers. Why VDSL and why only population centers? 50% of the households in The Netherlands have access to fiber internet. My parents live in a small village and have fiber (their village is about as remote as a remote German village). Heck, they are even hooking up farms out in the fields to fiber. It just takes some subsidies from the government, but it'll last for decades, so it is well worth it. In Germany, mobile internet of any speed gets spotty once you're outside of the cities. It's just a sad state of affairs. Internet is just hopelessly behind in Germany. We have lived in an economically strong area in Southern Germany. But wired broadband was deplorable (slow on paper, even slower and less reliable in practice). And mobile internet is not only spotty, the pricing is insane. E.g. unlimited 5G was 90 Euro per month last time I looked (I pay 25 per month).