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I feel like the person writing this article has never worked in a professional environment: getting it right is hard, you always have pressure to meet a deadlin

I feel like the person writing this article has never worked in a professional environment: getting it right is hard, you always have pressure to meet a deadline (for obvious reasons), but if you don't have a deadline, you can also end up in analysis/development paralysis where you don't spend your time on important stuff. A lot of the projects that person is talking about ended up being pretty good a year after their launch: Cyberpunk 2077 is a pretty good open world game (if not the messiah some people got hyped for), Apple Maps is not bad these days (especially in California), the iPhone 4 is now considered pretty revolutionary, hell even Windows Vista was not that bad after all the patches!

JohnFen 4y ago
> A lot of the projects that person is talking about ended up being pretty good a year after their launch Right. His point was that these things are being released before they're fully baked. That's a problem, and one that is much more common now.
- wilg 4y ago
  I think there’s a good argument to be made it’s not a problem at all.
  - flangola7 4y ago
    You don't see a problem with releasing unfinished work? When has that ever been acceptable in any discipline?
    - wilg 4y ago
      It’s typically in the eye of the beholder what “finished” means. With stuff like Cyberpunk 2077 I’m not at all fussed by there being bugs in a complicated video game. But most of the complaining about the game was feature requests. Maybe those elements make you like the thing less, but it’s not necessarily incomplete. You’re rarely gonna ship something perfect.
      - maerF0x0 4y ago
        The real issue with C2077 is that so many people pre-paid for a quality game, and never received it.
        wilg 4y ago
        That makes no sense. If you pre-order something you have no idea what the quality is. Also I played the game all the way through and it’s pretty good.
        maerF0x0 4y ago
        You know what the marketing materials say, and there were features promised and demo videos. I agree the game (story, concept, mechanics) was good, but the bugs were real bad.
    - mmcnl 4y ago
      What's unfinished? I love the new Windows terminal and have been using it for quite some time. Unfinished is subjective.
  - _aavaa_ 4y ago
    Your customers should not be used as your beta testers or QA department.
    - wilg 4y ago
      Again, this is totally subjective. It can be out of "beta" but still have bugs. But also, in many cases people are happy to have the opportunity to support a product before it is completed. Steam Early Access, etc.
      - _aavaa_ 4y ago
        There's a difference between "having bugs that we didn't catch" and "lets not look since our users will find them". Also, I'm sure they are, which is why lots of companies will provide an optional beta version of their software that people can use. But there's a big difference between having the opportunity to use beta software because you want to try it, and having the opportunity to be forced into running a beta and being QA.
- xboxnolifes 4y ago
  If they ultimately succeeded, this seems like very poor evidence that it's a problem.
  - JohnFen 4y ago
    This comment confuses me. I think it may be a matter of what problem people are concerned about.
- aorloff 4y ago
  Yes but its a different problem. Thats a capital allocation issue, a VC problem. His larger point seems to be that we are relying on increasingly complex systems that may become unmaintainable. Its the great tech circle of life.
- thatfrenchguy 4y ago
  Here's the thing though: if you released them "when they're fully baked", would they be as good a year later? Probably not?
- somsak2 4y ago
  I just don't see how this is a big deal, if you have a high bar for quality then don't be an early adopter / buy something on the day it is released. You can always wait and see how something develops, the outcome is no different to you but the company benefits significantly by having feedback from real users for that entire time.
  - JohnFen 4y ago
    I see a problem with an industry that happily releases junk on the premise that it can always be fixed later. That's better than not fixing it, but junk was still sold as if it were actually a finished product.
  - jimbo9991 4y ago
    The problem is the bar for quality has fallen through the floor and it has nothing to do with the amount of time it takes to develop something. If anything, it's likely to be of lesser quality the longer you wait because more web developers will have infused their shitty code by then.
- mmcnl 4y ago
  Isn't that a classic case of survivorship bias? Maybe their early release allowed these products to become fully baked much quicker due to shorter feedback cycles?
- lamontcg 4y ago
  At some point with something like Apple Maps there were always going to be edge conditions where it would be bad, the problem is just too vast. And at some point you have to pull the trigger so that the developers stop trying to mitigate whatever they can think of and start fixing problems that users actually have. Those two things are never the same thing (which is really the trouble that things like "minimum viable product" and "YAGNI" are trying to get at). At some point you need to draw a line in the sand and figure that it is good enough to ship, then you generally get blindsided by a bunch of issues you never dreamed of and then all your priorities shift.

JohnFen 4y ago

> A lot of the projects that person is talking about ended up being pretty good a year after their launch Right. His point was that these things are being released before they're fully baked. That's a problem, and one that is much more common now.

wilg 4y ago
I think there’s a good argument to be made it’s not a problem at all.
- flangola7 4y ago
  You don't see a problem with releasing unfinished work? When has that ever been acceptable in any discipline?
  - wilg 4y ago
    It’s typically in the eye of the beholder what “finished” means. With stuff like Cyberpunk 2077 I’m not at all fussed by there being bugs in a complicated video game. But most of the complaining about the game was feature requests. Maybe those elements make you like the thing less, but it’s not necessarily incomplete. You’re rarely gonna ship something perfect.
    - maerF0x0 4y ago
      The real issue with C2077 is that so many people pre-paid for a quality game, and never received it.
      - wilg 4y ago
        That makes no sense. If you pre-order something you have no idea what the quality is. Also I played the game all the way through and it’s pretty good.
        maerF0x0 4y ago
        You know what the marketing materials say, and there were features promised and demo videos. I agree the game (story, concept, mechanics) was good, but the bugs were real bad.
  - mmcnl 4y ago
    What's unfinished? I love the new Windows terminal and have been using it for quite some time. Unfinished is subjective.
- _aavaa_ 4y ago
  Your customers should not be used as your beta testers or QA department.
  - wilg 4y ago
    Again, this is totally subjective. It can be out of "beta" but still have bugs. But also, in many cases people are happy to have the opportunity to support a product before it is completed. Steam Early Access, etc.
    - _aavaa_ 4y ago
      There's a difference between "having bugs that we didn't catch" and "lets not look since our users will find them". Also, I'm sure they are, which is why lots of companies will provide an optional beta version of their software that people can use. But there's a big difference between having the opportunity to use beta software because you want to try it, and having the opportunity to be forced into running a beta and being QA.
xboxnolifes 4y ago
If they ultimately succeeded, this seems like very poor evidence that it's a problem.
- JohnFen 4y ago
  This comment confuses me. I think it may be a matter of what problem people are concerned about.
aorloff 4y ago
Yes but its a different problem. Thats a capital allocation issue, a VC problem. His larger point seems to be that we are relying on increasingly complex systems that may become unmaintainable. Its the great tech circle of life.
thatfrenchguy 4y ago
Here's the thing though: if you released them "when they're fully baked", would they be as good a year later? Probably not?
somsak2 4y ago
I just don't see how this is a big deal, if you have a high bar for quality then don't be an early adopter / buy something on the day it is released. You can always wait and see how something develops, the outcome is no different to you but the company benefits significantly by having feedback from real users for that entire time.
- JohnFen 4y ago
  I see a problem with an industry that happily releases junk on the premise that it can always be fixed later. That's better than not fixing it, but junk was still sold as if it were actually a finished product.
- jimbo9991 4y ago
  The problem is the bar for quality has fallen through the floor and it has nothing to do with the amount of time it takes to develop something. If anything, it's likely to be of lesser quality the longer you wait because more web developers will have infused their shitty code by then.
mmcnl 4y ago
Isn't that a classic case of survivorship bias? Maybe their early release allowed these products to become fully baked much quicker due to shorter feedback cycles?
lamontcg 4y ago
At some point with something like Apple Maps there were always going to be edge conditions where it would be bad, the problem is just too vast. And at some point you have to pull the trigger so that the developers stop trying to mitigate whatever they can think of and start fixing problems that users actually have. Those two things are never the same thing (which is really the trouble that things like "minimum viable product" and "YAGNI" are trying to get at). At some point you need to draw a line in the sand and figure that it is good enough to ship, then you generally get blindsided by a bunch of issues you never dreamed of and then all your priorities shift.