12 ms·

Apple fires hundreds of contract workers, previously assured jobs were safe

59 points by Octokiddie 4y ago

fortran77 4y ago
And this after a few days of press from Apple fanboys about how Apple manages to avoid layoffs because they didn't over-hire. (See: https://appleinsider.com/articles/23/02/10/how-apple-avoided-big-techs-mass-layoffs https://appleinsider.com/articles/23/02/10/how-apple-avoided... ) Getting rid of all your contractors is a way of looking like you haven't done layoffs. (In all fairness, that's part of the deal a contractor agrees to. However many of these people were employees of a temp agency or “headshop” and weren’t necessarily benefiting financially from this arrangement.)
- coding123 4y ago
  NSWY downvoted because this is the first thing I thought about.
  - LtWorf 4y ago
    [flagged]
  - barbazoo 4y ago
    That's what contracting is about. Getting hired quickly, usually getting higher hourly rate than employees with the downside of it being a temporary engagement and being the first to go when times are tough. This would be like a newspaper being outraged about someone cancelling their subscription because they thought the subscription was safe.
    - luckylion 4y ago
      That doesn't appear to be what Apple & Google etc are doing. The contractors aren't short-term troubleshooters or hired for a project. They're long-term quasi-employees, working alongside employees, often doing similar tasks as employees, just outsourced via a staffing-agency. They're often paid less than employees (e.g. today's article [1] that includes a part on raters at Google alleges that they get $14 while Google's minimum hourly pay for any employee is $15), and the agency is the one taking the blame for mistreatment while the company can say "we didn't know! that's terrible!" and then get the next staffing agency, tell them exactly what they want, and have another fall guy to take the blame. It's not about "we need a hundred people for the next 5 weeks on this, quick", it's about not hiring non-essential employees directly. Google will hire the PhDs, but not the quality raters or content moderators, because they are much easier to replace and there's no value to Google in employing them directly while they'd take PR hit if they were the actual employer (even though they're the ones saying what to do, when to do it and how to do it, which is often used as a test whether you're an employee or a contractor). [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34849311 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34849311
  - fortran77 4y ago
    It’s because there’s a lot of organized downvote brigading here. Fortunately the points don’t matter!
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
blindriver 4y ago
It sucks but that's the whole point of hiring and being a contract worker. It's an even more tenuous position than full-time employee and frankly I think it's good that contract workers were laid off ahead of any full time workers. I'm not sure why some people are trying to frame this as bad or immoral. It's the entire point of contract workers and you know that coming in as a contract worker. It's disappointing but that's the reality of the situation.
- oldstrangers 4y ago
  "Having an exploitable labor pool is the entire point! I'm not sure why some people are trying to frame this as bad or immoral."
  - simondotau 4y ago
    Explain how companies offering short term / temporary work is immoral. Are you saying that all work should be permanent and full time?
    - judge2020 4y ago
      The issue is that, combined with hospital billing shenanigans, health insurance et al is tied to being a full-time employee. If you don't qualify for/can't afford government healthcare programs, you might go bankrupt from the hospital bill for an ambulance ride.
      - elbigbad 4y ago
        Every contractor I’ve known has done so with the downside being what you said, and choosing the upside of more flexible work or higher pay. People don’t seem to be forced into contracting?
        LtWorf 4y ago
        > People don’t seem to be forced into contracting? They sometimes have a choice between unemployment, true.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
detourdog 4y ago
This article references a nytimes article. This article has no regional reference for the workers. It was recently reported that Apple was experiencing 50% defect rate in India where this newspaper seems to be from. Could be that Apple had higher expectations.
- shagie 4y ago
  I've looked... there haven't been any NYT articles about Apple. In trying to find other articles that might have a link directly to it I also found https://www.outlookindia.com/business/tech-layoffs-2023-apple-fires-contract-workers-months-after-avoiding-mass-layoffs-report-news-263162 https://www.outlookindia.com/business/tech-layoffs-2023-appl... > According to a report in the New York Post, over the last few days, Apple has laid off hundreds of contract workers – workers that were actually employed by outside agencies but worked alongside Apple employees on various projects. which... doesn't fill me with confidence that I will find one. ... and digging a bit more... https://nypost.com/2023/02/16/apple-has-begun-firing-contractors-amid-tech-layoffs-sources/ https://nypost.com/2023/02/16/apple-has-begun-firing-contrac... It is the New York Post (not the Times).
  - tyingq 4y ago
    "they are forced to work more than a mile away from Apple’s “spaceship” headquarters in Cupertino, Calif. at a facility which, in addition to relatively ho-hum architecture, lacks free snacks." I do have sympathy for people that thought they were on a 6/12/whatever month contract and let go early. But this NY Post article is really reaching.
magnusss 4y ago
The whole value proposition of a contractor is that you can onboard them quickly when you need to augment your existing staff, and can terminate them just as fast when they’re no longer needed. This is in no way a layoff or mass firing, it’s a standard contract termination that occurs all the time with tech companies. The “previously assured jobs were safe” claim is ungrounded in the article, which lamely provides little more than an anonymous source mentioning an unnamed Apple employee: “One of the contractors reportedly said that Apple previously assured the workers that their jobs were safe.”
lapcat 4y ago
It's unclear whether this article has any direct reporting or new information. Twice it references the New York Times, though with no link. It seems strangely written and may only be a (possibly bad) paraphrase of other articles.
- shagie 4y ago
  That one doesn't... it was likely a mistranscription of another article - https://www.outlookindia.com/business/tech-layoffs-2023-apple-fires-contract-workers-months-after-avoiding-mass-layoffs-report-news-263162 https://www.outlookindia.com/business/tech-layoffs-2023-appl... That article says: > According to a report in the New York Post, over the last few days, Apple has laid off hundreds of contract workers – workers that were actually employed by outside agencies but worked alongside Apple employees on various projects. The NY Post article (not Times) is https://nypost.com/2023/02/16/apple-has-begun-firing-contractors-amid-tech-layoffs-sources/ https://nypost.com/2023/02/16/apple-has-begun-firing-contrac... from a few days ago. It has no sources to it.
- Krisjohn 4y ago
  That's a generous description. It reads like AI junk and feels untrustworthy.
ravagat 4y ago
No big deal here, hence they are contractors. Interesting though is the timing of this, I remember reading last week (?) about the inconsistent quality from the Indian factories could be why this was posted

59 points by Octokiddie 4y ago

And this after a few days of press from Apple fanboys about how Apple manages to avoid layoffs because they didn't over-hire. (See: https://appleinsider.com/articles/23/02/10/how-apple-avoided-big-techs-mass-layoffs https://appleinsider.com/articles/23/02/10/how-apple-avoided... ) Getting rid of all your contractors is a way of looking like you haven't done layoffs. (In all fairness, that's part of the deal a contractor agrees to. However many of these people were employees of a temp agency or “headshop” and weren’t necessarily benefiting financially from this arrangement.)

coding123 4y ago
NSWY downvoted because this is the first thing I thought about.
- LtWorf 4y ago
  [flagged]
- barbazoo 4y ago
  That's what contracting is about. Getting hired quickly, usually getting higher hourly rate than employees with the downside of it being a temporary engagement and being the first to go when times are tough. This would be like a newspaper being outraged about someone cancelling their subscription because they thought the subscription was safe.
  - luckylion 4y ago
    That doesn't appear to be what Apple & Google etc are doing. The contractors aren't short-term troubleshooters or hired for a project. They're long-term quasi-employees, working alongside employees, often doing similar tasks as employees, just outsourced via a staffing-agency. They're often paid less than employees (e.g. today's article [1] that includes a part on raters at Google alleges that they get $14 while Google's minimum hourly pay for any employee is $15), and the agency is the one taking the blame for mistreatment while the company can say "we didn't know! that's terrible!" and then get the next staffing agency, tell them exactly what they want, and have another fall guy to take the blame. It's not about "we need a hundred people for the next 5 weeks on this, quick", it's about not hiring non-essential employees directly. Google will hire the PhDs, but not the quality raters or content moderators, because they are much easier to replace and there's no value to Google in employing them directly while they'd take PR hit if they were the actual employer (even though they're the ones saying what to do, when to do it and how to do it, which is often used as a test whether you're an employee or a contractor). [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34849311 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34849311
- fortran77 4y ago
  It’s because there’s a lot of organized downvote brigading here. Fortunately the points don’t matter!
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]

blindriver 4y ago

It sucks but that's the whole point of hiring and being a contract worker. It's an even more tenuous position than full-time employee and frankly I think it's good that contract workers were laid off ahead of any full time workers. I'm not sure why some people are trying to frame this as bad or immoral. It's the entire point of contract workers and you know that coming in as a contract worker. It's disappointing but that's the reality of the situation.

oldstrangers 4y ago
"Having an exploitable labor pool is the entire point! I'm not sure why some people are trying to frame this as bad or immoral."
- simondotau 4y ago
  Explain how companies offering short term / temporary work is immoral. Are you saying that all work should be permanent and full time?
  - judge2020 4y ago
    The issue is that, combined with hospital billing shenanigans, health insurance et al is tied to being a full-time employee. If you don't qualify for/can't afford government healthcare programs, you might go bankrupt from the hospital bill for an ambulance ride.
    - elbigbad 4y ago
      Every contractor I’ve known has done so with the downside being what you said, and choosing the upside of more flexible work or higher pay. People don’t seem to be forced into contracting?
      - LtWorf 4y ago
        > People don’t seem to be forced into contracting? They sometimes have a choice between unemployment, true.

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

detourdog 4y ago

This article references a nytimes article. This article has no regional reference for the workers. It was recently reported that Apple was experiencing 50% defect rate in India where this newspaper seems to be from. Could be that Apple had higher expectations.

shagie 4y ago
I've looked... there haven't been any NYT articles about Apple. In trying to find other articles that might have a link directly to it I also found https://www.outlookindia.com/business/tech-layoffs-2023-apple-fires-contract-workers-months-after-avoiding-mass-layoffs-report-news-263162 https://www.outlookindia.com/business/tech-layoffs-2023-appl... > According to a report in the New York Post, over the last few days, Apple has laid off hundreds of contract workers – workers that were actually employed by outside agencies but worked alongside Apple employees on various projects. which... doesn't fill me with confidence that I will find one. ... and digging a bit more... https://nypost.com/2023/02/16/apple-has-begun-firing-contractors-amid-tech-layoffs-sources/ https://nypost.com/2023/02/16/apple-has-begun-firing-contrac... It is the New York Post (not the Times).
- tyingq 4y ago
  "they are forced to work more than a mile away from Apple’s “spaceship” headquarters in Cupertino, Calif. at a facility which, in addition to relatively ho-hum architecture, lacks free snacks." I do have sympathy for people that thought they were on a 6/12/whatever month contract and let go early. But this NY Post article is really reaching.

magnusss 4y ago

The whole value proposition of a contractor is that you can onboard them quickly when you need to augment your existing staff, and can terminate them just as fast when they’re no longer needed. This is in no way a layoff or mass firing, it’s a standard contract termination that occurs all the time with tech companies. The “previously assured jobs were safe” claim is ungrounded in the article, which lamely provides little more than an anonymous source mentioning an unnamed Apple employee: “One of the contractors reportedly said that Apple previously assured the workers that their jobs were safe.”

lapcat 4y ago

It's unclear whether this article has any direct reporting or new information. Twice it references the New York Times, though with no link. It seems strangely written and may only be a (possibly bad) paraphrase of other articles.

shagie 4y ago
That one doesn't... it was likely a mistranscription of another article - https://www.outlookindia.com/business/tech-layoffs-2023-apple-fires-contract-workers-months-after-avoiding-mass-layoffs-report-news-263162 https://www.outlookindia.com/business/tech-layoffs-2023-appl... That article says: > According to a report in the New York Post, over the last few days, Apple has laid off hundreds of contract workers – workers that were actually employed by outside agencies but worked alongside Apple employees on various projects. The NY Post article (not Times) is https://nypost.com/2023/02/16/apple-has-begun-firing-contractors-amid-tech-layoffs-sources/ https://nypost.com/2023/02/16/apple-has-begun-firing-contrac... from a few days ago. It has no sources to it.
Krisjohn 4y ago
That's a generous description. It reads like AI junk and feels untrustworthy.

ravagat 4y ago

No big deal here, hence they are contractors. Interesting though is the timing of this, I remember reading last week (?) about the inconsistent quality from the Indian factories could be why this was posted