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UBI will never come because we’ll always have jobs. Sure the jobs won’t pay as well, but the idea that there won’t be jobs and masses of people will be forced i

UBI will never come because we’ll always have jobs. Sure the jobs won’t pay as well, but the idea that there won’t be jobs and masses of people will be forced into the street is laughably implausible. Why? Because the oligarchs won’t allow that to happen. They’ll invent jobs for everyone. Low paying jobs without benefits for sure, but they’ll make sure you have a job. Simply because of the fear of a populace that has enough time and energy to be fed up with their lot. Jobs make people busy and tired. And busy and tired people don’t rock the boat. Now they’ll say something about the luxury of human touch, or some other clap trap. But then they’ll also talk about, needing to learn the dignity of work, or giving people something to do keep people off the street. Or saying how making people work for the bare necessities in life makes them appreciate it more. It’s the same moralizing bullshit they always say about poor people. It’s why productivity has gone up, but wages and working hours have stayed constant. They FEAR a population that’s screwed over and has the time to organize.

ChuckNorris89 4y ago
What you're describing is what we had in communist times in Eastern Europe. Absolutely everyone had a job since not having a job was illegal. It might not have been a useful one, or a well paid one, or the job of your dreams, but everyone was given a job to do, regardless of how pointless it was, even if you didn't pursue any higher education or vocational training. You were always given something to do for the state, no matter your situation. That's why automation was so shit compared to the west in the '80s. Why invest in advanced automation to make goods faster and cheaper when you already have endless cheap labor you need to keep busy so they don't revolt, and you don't have much consumer demand for goods since everyone is more or less equally poor? Granted, most people weren't terribly bothered by this back then, as most jobs, even the shitty ones, came with free housing from the government and free schooling for your kids. So as long as you kept your mouth shut, your head down, showed up to your useless busy-work job, and didn't rock the boat, you'd could have a pretty easy life regardless of your lack of skills or education.
- quantified 4y ago
  That's not how capitalism works. Owners will hire the minimum number of workers for as close to minimum wage as possible. Any attempt to have government-created jobs will encounter major fights, even though the USA could use a WPA to fix infrastructure and do the inspirational public works that we can't bring ourselves to otherwise. Masses of starving people are just fine with the owning class.
  - jonathankoren 4y ago
    The rich want to maintain their position in society. They’ll gladly pay the guillotine insurance of full, but cheap employment.
welshwelsh 4y ago
>productivity has gone up, but wages and working hours have stayed constant. If you can leverage technology to improve productivity, your wages WILL go up to match it. Software engineering wages have exploded over the last decade and are increasing far faster than productivity. The game is not rigged - great contributions lead to great rewards. But if you don't have relevant tech skills, and you work the same way your parents worked, like most people do... then obviously no, your wages will not and should not go up. It doesn't matter if society in general is becoming more productive, if you didn't contribute to that productivity increase then why should you benefit from it? People need to wake up and understand that raw labor is not valuable anymore. We don't need people who work hard and can follow directions, that's what computers are for. We need people who understand how things work. People who can improve existing processes and create new ones. For people like this, opportunities are endless.
- jonathankoren 4y ago
  >If you can leverage technology to improve productivity, your wages WILL go up to match it This idea runs counter to history of industrialization and automation. If you can get the same output of six people with one person, you fire five them, because you can’t produce or sell 36x as much.

ChuckNorris89 4y ago

What you're describing is what we had in communist times in Eastern Europe. Absolutely everyone had a job since not having a job was illegal. It might not have been a useful one, or a well paid one, or the job of your dreams, but everyone was given a job to do, regardless of how pointless it was, even if you didn't pursue any higher education or vocational training. You were always given something to do for the state, no matter your situation. That's why automation was so shit compared to the west in the '80s. Why invest in advanced automation to make goods faster and cheaper when you already have endless cheap labor you need to keep busy so they don't revolt, and you don't have much consumer demand for goods since everyone is more or less equally poor? Granted, most people weren't terribly bothered by this back then, as most jobs, even the shitty ones, came with free housing from the government and free schooling for your kids. So as long as you kept your mouth shut, your head down, showed up to your useless busy-work job, and didn't rock the boat, you'd could have a pretty easy life regardless of your lack of skills or education.

quantified 4y ago
That's not how capitalism works. Owners will hire the minimum number of workers for as close to minimum wage as possible. Any attempt to have government-created jobs will encounter major fights, even though the USA could use a WPA to fix infrastructure and do the inspirational public works that we can't bring ourselves to otherwise. Masses of starving people are just fine with the owning class.
- jonathankoren 4y ago
  The rich want to maintain their position in society. They’ll gladly pay the guillotine insurance of full, but cheap employment.

welshwelsh 4y ago

>productivity has gone up, but wages and working hours have stayed constant. If you can leverage technology to improve productivity, your wages WILL go up to match it. Software engineering wages have exploded over the last decade and are increasing far faster than productivity. The game is not rigged - great contributions lead to great rewards. But if you don't have relevant tech skills, and you work the same way your parents worked, like most people do... then obviously no, your wages will not and should not go up. It doesn't matter if society in general is becoming more productive, if you didn't contribute to that productivity increase then why should you benefit from it? People need to wake up and understand that raw labor is not valuable anymore. We don't need people who work hard and can follow directions, that's what computers are for. We need people who understand how things work. People who can improve existing processes and create new ones. For people like this, opportunities are endless.

jonathankoren 4y ago
>If you can leverage technology to improve productivity, your wages WILL go up to match it This idea runs counter to history of industrialization and automation. If you can get the same output of six people with one person, you fire five them, because you can’t produce or sell 36x as much.