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Stop with the disingenuous false dilemmas. A perfectly valid message is "we want what you offer on better terms". The actions strongly broadcast that message, p

Stop with the disingenuous false dilemmas. A perfectly valid message is "we want what you offer on better terms". The actions strongly broadcast that message, perhaps better than just having an offering that doesn't sell. If everyone keeps playing this stupid "there can be only 2 positions in any argument" game, we end up with posts like this - completely ignorant of a multitude of other options. Stop it and consider that this may not be binary.

TheCapn 15y ago
My point isn't so much about how we go about things but more of a plea to have people work on their opponent's terms in order to win. Each side on the issue is drawing their line in the sand but that line is too far from one another to ever reach a form of compromise or conclusion. There's this large valley between what the piracy community wants and what the industry is willing to give. Which side is willing to crack first? While pirates get their jollies there's still too much of a community of people that are paying for the products that keep industries afloat. Are we going to try and convert enough consumers to finally "hurt" the industry? Will that even be enough once the government tacks a law onto consumer products that goes towards the industry companies? What about the "legal" approach. Is boycotting going to work? Is telling the companies the exact message you wrote going to change anything? Actions definitely speak louder than words but is pirating something going to send that message or will it send the message "we want what you offer"? I agree with your statement that its not binary. Nothing is black and white in this situations. But the people vocally advocating piracy are doing no better where they say "my way or the highway". I maybe shouldn't offer up too much opinion on the matter because there's evidence on both sides of the matter that show both progress and regression. On one hand we're seeing more services like netflix offering things on terms "pirates" want: convenient, accessible and quality. But on the other end we're seeing things like worse DRM and new bills. Have we really made progress or not?
thebigshane 15y ago
You are right technically. TheCapn is right politically. While we may agree with you about the real reasons and motivations of the pirate, that isn't how corporations and governments look at things. I agree with TheCapn in how Big Media interprets it: theft, lost revenue. There can be only 2 positions in a political argument, and yes, that breeds ignorance.
bluebridge 15y ago
That there can be other inferences from someone's behavior is not the question. They could infer from the acts of piracy many other possible reasons. However, the argument that the pro-censors are making is that they're losing money ("costing American jobs"). This is not really rational, but by pirating you do support their argument by being part of the numbers that, "would pay if forced." Whereas if you chose from alternatives that conducted business on better terms than they would be forced to infer other reasons for losing money, such as, "we are losing money because we are assholes," and would not have the platform of lost sales to fool themselves or lobby politicians.

TheCapn 15y ago

My point isn't so much about how we go about things but more of a plea to have people work on their opponent's terms in order to win. Each side on the issue is drawing their line in the sand but that line is too far from one another to ever reach a form of compromise or conclusion. There's this large valley between what the piracy community wants and what the industry is willing to give. Which side is willing to crack first? While pirates get their jollies there's still too much of a community of people that are paying for the products that keep industries afloat. Are we going to try and convert enough consumers to finally "hurt" the industry? Will that even be enough once the government tacks a law onto consumer products that goes towards the industry companies? What about the "legal" approach. Is boycotting going to work? Is telling the companies the exact message you wrote going to change anything? Actions definitely speak louder than words but is pirating something going to send that message or will it send the message "we want what you offer"? I agree with your statement that its not binary. Nothing is black and white in this situations. But the people vocally advocating piracy are doing no better where they say "my way or the highway". I maybe shouldn't offer up too much opinion on the matter because there's evidence on both sides of the matter that show both progress and regression. On one hand we're seeing more services like netflix offering things on terms "pirates" want: convenient, accessible and quality. But on the other end we're seeing things like worse DRM and new bills. Have we really made progress or not?

thebigshane 15y ago

You are right technically. TheCapn is right politically. While we may agree with you about the real reasons and motivations of the pirate, that isn't how corporations and governments look at things. I agree with TheCapn in how Big Media interprets it: theft, lost revenue. There can be only 2 positions in a political argument, and yes, that breeds ignorance.

bluebridge 15y ago

That there can be other inferences from someone's behavior is not the question. They could infer from the acts of piracy many other possible reasons. However, the argument that the pro-censors are making is that they're losing money ("costing American jobs"). This is not really rational, but by pirating you do support their argument by being part of the numbers that, "would pay if forced." Whereas if you chose from alternatives that conducted business on better terms than they would be forced to infer other reasons for losing money, such as, "we are losing money because we are assholes," and would not have the platform of lost sales to fool themselves or lobby politicians.