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What I don’t understand about narrative that Carter failed on Iran is that Regan never got enough blame for blatantly violating U.S. laws and negotiated with Ir

What I don’t understand about narrative that Carter failed on Iran is that Regan never got enough blame for blatantly violating U.S. laws and negotiated with Iran despite saying we don’t negotiate with hostage takers. Carter got far too much blame and Reagan far too little. https://www.vox.com/2016/1/25/10826056/reagan-iran-hostage-negotiation https://www.vox.com/2016/1/25/10826056/reagan-iran-hostage-n...

krapp 4y ago
To put it simply, winners write the history, and Reagan's influence on American politics and culture far outstripped Carter.
michaelscott 4y ago
Reagan played the political game far better than both Carter and Nixon (Watergate notwithstanding). He was a master at couching effective foreign policy tactics, which often relied on detente (eg negotiating with Iran), within the augur of American values and exceptionalism that spoke to the people of the time ("we don't negotiate with hostage takers"). The former was critical to actually get things done, but a president has to realise that the latter is just as critical because you need that public support to get the former through the door.
- refurb 4y ago
  Pretty much this. As much as people hate politics, its the politicians who can work thr system that are the most effective. Image is important because thats what maintains support, but you also need to be pragmatic at the same time and do things that might lose you support because voters dont understand the trade offs.
  - syzarian 4y ago
    But Reagan’s “effectiveness” includes murdering and torturing human rights advocates who opposed his unlawful actions in Central America. The U.S. and world would be better without such “effectiveness”.
    - refurb 4y ago
      Pretty sure you can do what i said without supporting death squads. Theyre really not related at all.
      - syzarian 4y ago
        We were talking about Reagan and he did use death squads.
- syzarian 4y ago
  But Reagan got things done by blatantly violating the law with impunity. Lovers of democratic forms of governance ought to look with disdain at such shenanigans.
  - michaelscott 4y ago
    I'm not really making a comment about his morality, only his skill. If you have an issue with his methods and what they mean morally, I'd suggest you not look too deeply at any of the people who've sat in the Oval Office. Every president since at least Truman, in a more ideal world, would be tried for war crimes for a start. In the real world things are a little more grey though.
    - syzarian 4y ago
      I overall agree with your point. There are many crimes the U.S. government has committed with impunity.

krapp 4y ago

To put it simply, winners write the history, and Reagan's influence on American politics and culture far outstripped Carter.

michaelscott 4y ago

Reagan played the political game far better than both Carter and Nixon (Watergate notwithstanding). He was a master at couching effective foreign policy tactics, which often relied on detente (eg negotiating with Iran), within the augur of American values and exceptionalism that spoke to the people of the time ("we don't negotiate with hostage takers"). The former was critical to actually get things done, but a president has to realise that the latter is just as critical because you need that public support to get the former through the door.

refurb 4y ago
Pretty much this. As much as people hate politics, its the politicians who can work thr system that are the most effective. Image is important because thats what maintains support, but you also need to be pragmatic at the same time and do things that might lose you support because voters dont understand the trade offs.
- syzarian 4y ago
  But Reagan’s “effectiveness” includes murdering and torturing human rights advocates who opposed his unlawful actions in Central America. The U.S. and world would be better without such “effectiveness”.
  - refurb 4y ago
    Pretty sure you can do what i said without supporting death squads. Theyre really not related at all.
    - syzarian 4y ago
      We were talking about Reagan and he did use death squads.
syzarian 4y ago
But Reagan got things done by blatantly violating the law with impunity. Lovers of democratic forms of governance ought to look with disdain at such shenanigans.
- michaelscott 4y ago
  I'm not really making a comment about his morality, only his skill. If you have an issue with his methods and what they mean morally, I'd suggest you not look too deeply at any of the people who've sat in the Oval Office. Every president since at least Truman, in a more ideal world, would be tried for war crimes for a start. In the real world things are a little more grey though.
  - syzarian 4y ago
    I overall agree with your point. There are many crimes the U.S. government has committed with impunity.