5 ms·

> If you could switch personality at will, would that make you a non-person? Yes, just like the ability to switch bodies at will would make me a non-human. Be

by lisper 4y ago

> If you could switch personality at will, would that make you a non-person? Yes, just like the ability to switch bodies at will would make me a non-human. Being bound to a human body is part of what makes me a human.

ethanbond 4y ago
Person != human, probably
- lisper 4y ago
  Yes, I definitely admit the possibility of non-human persons. I even admit the possibility of a computer who is a person. I just don't think ChatGPT is there yet.
  - pixl97 4y ago
    Imagine a grayscale color wheel (gradient) where we have white on one side and black on the other. I want you to pick one color of grey and tell me why everything lighter than that has personhood, and everything darker does not? This is the philosophical nature of the argument that we all have occurring now. Two very well informed experts won't even pick the same spot on the gradient. Some people will never pick anything that's not pure white (humanity), others will pick positions very close to pure black. Hell, there may not even be any right answer. But, I do believe there are a vast number of wrong answers that will deeply affect or society for a long period of time due to the things we end up creating with reckless abandon.
    - lisper 4y ago
      I will gladly concede that personhood is a continuum, not a dichotomy. Great apes have a certain level of personhood. So do dogs, elephants, dolphins, whales, and probably pigs and corvids, maybe even chickens and cephalopods. This assessment is based on the fact that all of these things have identifiable personalities that remain more or less the same from day to day, as well as identifiable goals and desires that were not pre-programmed into them in any obvious way.
whywhywouldyou 4y ago
So following your response here and your original comment directly comparing ChatGPT to a human with schizophrenia: are schizophrenics non-people? According to you, the bot "literally comes across like a schizophrenic off their meds". I'm confused. Also, the original article talks a lot about how we can be convinced by actors that they are indeed a totally different person. You might say that actors can change their personality at will to suit their role. Are actors non-people?
- lisper 4y ago
  > are schizophrenics non-people? Schizophrenics are multiple people inhabiting one body. The pithiest way I know of describing it is a line from a Pink Floyd song: "There's someone in my head but it's not me." > Are actors non-people? I don't know many actors so I can't really say. I like to think that underneath the pretense there is a "real person" but I don't actually know. I have heard tell of method actors who get so deeply into their roles that they are actually able to extinguish any real person who might interfere with their work. But this is far, far outside my area of expertise.
  - drdec 4y ago
    FYI, the condition you are referring to is called multiple personality disorder and is distinct from schizophrenia.
    - lisper 4y ago
      No, multiple personality is different. Schizophrenia is distinct from MPD, but both are characterized by having multiple persons resident in one brain, it just manifest differently. In MPD the multiple persons swap in and out, whereas in schizophrenia there is one person who is definitely the real resident while the others are intruders. Schizophrenics really do hear voices, and those voices are "someone else". With MPD you have multiple coherent personalities manifesting themselves at different times. With schizophrenia you have one personality slowly being driven crazy by not being able to make the voices shut up. (Source: I am not a mental health professional, but I did spend some time interviewing and hanging out with schizophrenics, both under treatment and not, as part of a documentary film I made about homeless people about 15 years ago. https://graceofgodmovie.com/ https://graceofgodmovie.com/ )

by lisper 4y ago

ethanbond 4y ago

Person != human, probably

lisper 4y ago
Yes, I definitely admit the possibility of non-human persons. I even admit the possibility of a computer who is a person. I just don't think ChatGPT is there yet.
- pixl97 4y ago
  Imagine a grayscale color wheel (gradient) where we have white on one side and black on the other. I want you to pick one color of grey and tell me why everything lighter than that has personhood, and everything darker does not? This is the philosophical nature of the argument that we all have occurring now. Two very well informed experts won't even pick the same spot on the gradient. Some people will never pick anything that's not pure white (humanity), others will pick positions very close to pure black. Hell, there may not even be any right answer. But, I do believe there are a vast number of wrong answers that will deeply affect or society for a long period of time due to the things we end up creating with reckless abandon.
  - lisper 4y ago
    I will gladly concede that personhood is a continuum, not a dichotomy. Great apes have a certain level of personhood. So do dogs, elephants, dolphins, whales, and probably pigs and corvids, maybe even chickens and cephalopods. This assessment is based on the fact that all of these things have identifiable personalities that remain more or less the same from day to day, as well as identifiable goals and desires that were not pre-programmed into them in any obvious way.

whywhywouldyou 4y ago

So following your response here and your original comment directly comparing ChatGPT to a human with schizophrenia: are schizophrenics non-people? According to you, the bot "literally comes across like a schizophrenic off their meds". I'm confused. Also, the original article talks a lot about how we can be convinced by actors that they are indeed a totally different person. You might say that actors can change their personality at will to suit their role. Are actors non-people?

lisper 4y ago
> are schizophrenics non-people? Schizophrenics are multiple people inhabiting one body. The pithiest way I know of describing it is a line from a Pink Floyd song: "There's someone in my head but it's not me." > Are actors non-people? I don't know many actors so I can't really say. I like to think that underneath the pretense there is a "real person" but I don't actually know. I have heard tell of method actors who get so deeply into their roles that they are actually able to extinguish any real person who might interfere with their work. But this is far, far outside my area of expertise.
- drdec 4y ago
  FYI, the condition you are referring to is called multiple personality disorder and is distinct from schizophrenia.
  - lisper 4y ago
    No, multiple personality is different. Schizophrenia is distinct from MPD, but both are characterized by having multiple persons resident in one brain, it just manifest differently. In MPD the multiple persons swap in and out, whereas in schizophrenia there is one person who is definitely the real resident while the others are intruders. Schizophrenics really do hear voices, and those voices are "someone else". With MPD you have multiple coherent personalities manifesting themselves at different times. With schizophrenia you have one personality slowly being driven crazy by not being able to make the voices shut up. (Source: I am not a mental health professional, but I did spend some time interviewing and hanging out with schizophrenics, both under treatment and not, as part of a documentary film I made about homeless people about 15 years ago. https://graceofgodmovie.com/ https://graceofgodmovie.com/ )