6 ms·

He was living in Canada for several years and apparently made some free open source software that was subsequently used in a porn site (without his further invo

by relix 15y ago

He was living in Canada for several years and apparently made some free open source software that was subsequently used in a porn site (without his further involvement or knowledge), as is oft the case and the reason FOSS exists. He then was arrested on a visit to Iran. Disregarding the ridiculousness of this specific case, it sets a dangerous precedent: anyone who has written open source code that is used by sites, and possible porn sites, could be just as guilty as this guy according to Iranian law. I think I'll skip Iran on my next vacation for now.

freerobby 15y ago
Minor clarification: it said he was a Canadian resident, not a citizen.
- relix 15y ago
  Yes I updated my post, you are correct.
zalew 15y ago
> I think I'll skip Iran on my next vacation for now. They don't give a crap what an average tourist does in his homeland. Repressions are addressed toward their own citizens and foreign journalists/activists because they are a threat to the regime.
- corin_ 15y ago
  You think they looked at someone who coded a piece of free software for image uploads, that was used by porn sites, and thought "he's a threat to our regime"?
  - zalew 15y ago
    Any citizen of an opressive country who doesn't support the govt is looked at as a threat, that's how regimes treat their citizens. The accusations are a tool, not a reason.
    - eternalban 15y ago
      And the more randomly the tool is applied the more effective it is in terrorizing people. IRI is basically broadcasting to Iranian expat community that: don't even think about technically contributing to software that can be used to topple us.
  - headbiznatch 15y ago
    Smash a nose, freak everybody out, nobody says shit after that. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VtkM2SPaSJ8&feature=youtu.be&t=50s http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VtkM2SPaSJ8&feature=youtu...
- shadowfiend 15y ago
  But then again, not visiting a country is the tourism equivalent of a boycott. Thus why there are travel restrictions between the US and Cuba. So perhaps it isn't a “they could arrest me” (though it's not like Iran has never arrested foreign citizens and accused them of espionage), but simply an “I don't want to show any form of support for a regime like that”. Naturally, there are counterarguments, like how visitors provide a view into the outside world, for example.
  - zalew 15y ago
    I frequent travel discussion boards, so I am familiar with this point of view, it's a common topic (should I travel to [insert your favorite opressive country]). However, I'm on the side which doesn't share this way of thinking. Contrary to what popular media makes us think, countries are made of citizens, not politicians. Citizens who are by general usually nice people and happy that you came to share your interest in their culture, common life, and leave some bucks in their stores/restaurants, not only seeing them through foreign interest of their governments. Iranian people have an awesome opinion of their friendliness to travellers, btw.
    - Jun8 15y ago
      "Contrary to what popular media makes us think..." What part of this news (or the many others about stonings, etc.) do you think is media manipulation? If you don't believe US media, get your facts directly from Iranians, there are ample examples of books and films (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Stoning_of_Soraya_M. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Stoning_of_Soraya_M., http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reading_Lolita_in_Tehran http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reading_Lolita_in_Tehran, and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persepolis_%28comics%29 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persepolis_%28comics%29 are popular examples) that can be used for this purpose. I've never subscribed to the "citizens are actually good, it's the governments who are evil" argument, it just shifts the blame, e.g. "the Nazis did it" by reification: governments are made of people and they, more or less, are populistic, following the majority's wishes. There are many parts of the society in Iran that back the current regime, don't think that everybody's against it. So, my reply to the grandparent comment would be: read more about the people and regime and if you are convinced, then, yes, do not visit Iran, boycott them by withholding your money.
- jnevelson 15y ago
  Given the utter insanity of what happened with this guy, I don't think anyone is in a position to judge what Iran gives a crap about or not.
deleted 15y ago
[deleted]
sodoer 15y ago
Regarding precedent, your statement is absolutely true and happening now. Many brilliant iranian (even foreign born) technologists do not participate in open or entrepreneurial endeavors bc of their ties back home and fear of repercussions on self or family. This case shows exactly how far and what the regime is capable of.
mseebach 15y ago
> it sets a dangerous precedent Precedent is irrelevant because Iran is not under the rule of law. Iran can imprison or kill you if that's what they feel like. The exact reason (if they give one) is just a fig leaf, and your confession is likely to be the result of torture. Legal logic does not apply.
- ypcx 15y ago
  "can imprison or kill you if that's what they feel like" Reminds me also of a certain north american country. Oh, never mind.
  - gnosis 15y ago
    Exactly. The US can just brand you a terrorist and assassinate you if it feels like it -- even if you're an American citizen -- no need to even extract a false confession under torture or have a sham trial (though there are plenty of those in the US as well). They could just kill you outright. Iran does not have a monopoly on mockeries of justice.
    - mvzink 15y ago
      > Iran does not have a monopoly on mockeries of justice. You're quite right. From these cases, the only real differences would seem to be 1) basis: terrorism vs. insulting Islam and 2) extremity: different bars for capital punishment.
  - mseebach 15y ago
    Yes, those are almost slightly related. Facepalm. Yes, the erosions in US justice over the past decade and change are rightly cause for great concern, but they are orders of magnitude from the total absence of the rule of law in Iran.
tlb 15y ago
There's certainly more to the story. He lived there as a citizen for many years and probably had enemies. Iran doesn't seem to be working their way through github. Remember, prosecutions start with who they want to get, and then try to find some laws they broke. So often the stated charge is something incidental like tax evasion.

by relix 15y ago

freerobby 15y ago

Minor clarification: it said he was a Canadian resident, not a citizen.

relix 15y ago
Yes I updated my post, you are correct.

zalew 15y ago

> I think I'll skip Iran on my next vacation for now. They don't give a crap what an average tourist does in his homeland. Repressions are addressed toward their own citizens and foreign journalists/activists because they are a threat to the regime.

corin_ 15y ago
You think they looked at someone who coded a piece of free software for image uploads, that was used by porn sites, and thought "he's a threat to our regime"?
- zalew 15y ago
  Any citizen of an opressive country who doesn't support the govt is looked at as a threat, that's how regimes treat their citizens. The accusations are a tool, not a reason.
  - eternalban 15y ago
    And the more randomly the tool is applied the more effective it is in terrorizing people. IRI is basically broadcasting to Iranian expat community that: don't even think about technically contributing to software that can be used to topple us.
- headbiznatch 15y ago
  Smash a nose, freak everybody out, nobody says shit after that. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VtkM2SPaSJ8&feature=youtu.be&t=50s http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VtkM2SPaSJ8&feature=youtu...
shadowfiend 15y ago
But then again, not visiting a country is the tourism equivalent of a boycott. Thus why there are travel restrictions between the US and Cuba. So perhaps it isn't a “they could arrest me” (though it's not like Iran has never arrested foreign citizens and accused them of espionage), but simply an “I don't want to show any form of support for a regime like that”. Naturally, there are counterarguments, like how visitors provide a view into the outside world, for example.
- zalew 15y ago
  I frequent travel discussion boards, so I am familiar with this point of view, it's a common topic (should I travel to [insert your favorite opressive country]). However, I'm on the side which doesn't share this way of thinking. Contrary to what popular media makes us think, countries are made of citizens, not politicians. Citizens who are by general usually nice people and happy that you came to share your interest in their culture, common life, and leave some bucks in their stores/restaurants, not only seeing them through foreign interest of their governments. Iranian people have an awesome opinion of their friendliness to travellers, btw.
  - Jun8 15y ago
    "Contrary to what popular media makes us think..." What part of this news (or the many others about stonings, etc.) do you think is media manipulation? If you don't believe US media, get your facts directly from Iranians, there are ample examples of books and films (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Stoning_of_Soraya_M. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Stoning_of_Soraya_M., http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reading_Lolita_in_Tehran http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reading_Lolita_in_Tehran, and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persepolis_%28comics%29 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persepolis_%28comics%29 are popular examples) that can be used for this purpose. I've never subscribed to the "citizens are actually good, it's the governments who are evil" argument, it just shifts the blame, e.g. "the Nazis did it" by reification: governments are made of people and they, more or less, are populistic, following the majority's wishes. There are many parts of the society in Iran that back the current regime, don't think that everybody's against it. So, my reply to the grandparent comment would be: read more about the people and regime and if you are convinced, then, yes, do not visit Iran, boycott them by withholding your money.
jnevelson 15y ago
Given the utter insanity of what happened with this guy, I don't think anyone is in a position to judge what Iran gives a crap about or not.

deleted 15y ago

[deleted]

sodoer 15y ago

Regarding precedent, your statement is absolutely true and happening now. Many brilliant iranian (even foreign born) technologists do not participate in open or entrepreneurial endeavors bc of their ties back home and fear of repercussions on self or family. This case shows exactly how far and what the regime is capable of.

mseebach 15y ago

> it sets a dangerous precedent Precedent is irrelevant because Iran is not under the rule of law. Iran can imprison or kill you if that's what they feel like. The exact reason (if they give one) is just a fig leaf, and your confession is likely to be the result of torture. Legal logic does not apply.

ypcx 15y ago
"can imprison or kill you if that's what they feel like" Reminds me also of a certain north american country. Oh, never mind.
- gnosis 15y ago
  Exactly. The US can just brand you a terrorist and assassinate you if it feels like it -- even if you're an American citizen -- no need to even extract a false confession under torture or have a sham trial (though there are plenty of those in the US as well). They could just kill you outright. Iran does not have a monopoly on mockeries of justice.
  - mvzink 15y ago
    > Iran does not have a monopoly on mockeries of justice. You're quite right. From these cases, the only real differences would seem to be 1) basis: terrorism vs. insulting Islam and 2) extremity: different bars for capital punishment.
- mseebach 15y ago
  Yes, those are almost slightly related. Facepalm. Yes, the erosions in US justice over the past decade and change are rightly cause for great concern, but they are orders of magnitude from the total absence of the rule of law in Iran.

tlb 15y ago

There's certainly more to the story. He lived there as a citizen for many years and probably had enemies. Iran doesn't seem to be working their way through github. Remember, prosecutions start with who they want to get, and then try to find some laws they broke. So often the stated charge is something incidental like tax evasion.