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> The pipelines are repairable That is really doubtful, especially at this point when they've been full of seawater for so long. > The pipelines were not in u

> The pipelines are repairable That is really doubtful, especially at this point when they've been full of seawater for so long. > The pipelines were not in use, yet. NS1 was operational for years, and NS2 was technically too: all the equipment was running and the pipe was pressurized - just turn the tap on. > There was zero chance that the pipelines would go in use in the next decade, given the political situation. I don't think that's fair. Political situation can change easily. Lap journalists could just dust off the ol' narrative of "Ukraine is full of nazis", which was prevalent in pro-western media before the war gone hot and all of this suddenly became "Russian propaganda"

lispm 4y ago
> That is really doubtful, especially at this point when they've been full of seawater for so long. They have coating inside. This prevents corrosion for some time. Earlier this year there were reports of a cost estimate of $500 million and a time duration of one year for a repair. One of the pipelines hasn't been damaged, but maybe needs some equipment replaced -> pumps. > NS1 was operational for years "Was". It wasn't delivering natural gas when the explosion happened. Russia had stopped the gas transport already. Various reasons were given - technical problems and the sanctions against Russia. There was never any natural gas delivered via NS2. NS1 was stopped end of August 2022. If Russia ever wants to sell natural gas (again) via these pipelines , then it should stop their brutal war on the Ukraine NOW. > I don't think that's fair. It is. There is zero chance that Germany will take any gas delivered via these pipelines without a full political change in Russia.
- foverzar 4y ago
  > Earlier this year there were reports of a cost estimate of $500 million and a time duration of one year for a repair. So basically like building the pipe part anew. > There was never any natural gas delivered via NS2 Technically there was. It was pressurized. Meaning it was full of gas delivered up to the tap on the German side. > If Russia ever wants to sell natural gas (again) via these pipelines Gosh, I really hope not. I also hope it stops pumping gas through Ukraine and doesn't waste time on Turkish gas hub. Dealing with Europe who acts like this is some kind of privilege is a waste, IMO. > It is. There is zero chance that Germany will take any gas delivered via these pipelines You are being categorical at the expense of being realistic. It's been gorging on gas from these pipelines like crazy, while filling the reserves. And it still uses Russian gas via various "latvian blend" like schemes, as Russia continues to pay a huge-ass fee to Ukraine for using old soviet huge-ass pipeline. This implies a huge-ass demand on the other side of that pipe. (It's actually quite fun to observe reiteration of history as the whole anti-NS1/2 deal is so hugely similar to anti-Ukrainian pipeline back in the Soviet era)
  - lispm 4y ago
    > So basically like building the pipe part anew. No, the cost of the Northstream 2 alone was roughly $11 billion. Much of the pipeline could be used, the explosion was only in a small region. > Technically there was. It was pressurized. Meaning it was full of gas delivered up to the tap on the German side. It was filled, but nothing was delivered into Germany. There was also no permission given to do that. > Dealing with Europe who acts like this is some kind of privilege is a waste, IMO. Russia has all the responsibility. They attacked the Ukraine. It's their choice. It has nothing to do with a 'privilege'. > You are being categorical at the expense of being realistic. Realistically Russia has removed themselves from being someone who we want to trade with for at least a decade. They are not a partner and they are not reliable. Russia started a war against not only the Ukraine, but also against the rest of Europe and they used the energy dependency as a weapon. Russia was preparing for the war for some time.
    - foverzar 4y ago
      > No, the cost of the Northstream 2 alone was roughly $11 billion. Much of the pipeline could be used, the explosion was only in a small region. Yes. You are citing the cost of the whole project, with all the infrastructure, pumping equipment, pipelaying ships, etc. The pipe is only one component. Besides, it doesn't matter if it's "a small region". As soon as the pipe gets full of water, it's basically dead in the water (pun intended). Lookup how these pipes get built. The sections are connected and hermetically sealed above the water, and then lowered so that no water gets in. You seem to be imagining that pumping out a few countries length of seawater is some kind of an easy task, but it's actually cheaper to disassemble and rebuild the whole thing. > It was filled, but nothing was delivered into Germany. There was also no permission given to do that. That's just rhetorics. If you turn off the water tap at your home, that doesn't mean the water is no longer delivered. It's still there, practically at your home. Not sure what "permissions" you are referring to. > Russia has all the responsibility. They attacked the Ukraine. It's their choice. It has nothing to do with a 'privilege'. I am not talking about Ukraine. I am talking about weird European attitude like it's some kind of privilege to supply them like everyone around owes them something. If they don't want Russian gas, then that's just businesses. > Realistically Russia has removed themselves from being someone who we want to trade with for at least a decade. They are not a partner and they are not reliable. > Russia started a war against not only the Ukraine, but also against the rest of Europe and they used the energy dependency as a weapon. Well that's just propaganda bullshit. First of all you've said it yourself that it's a matter of politics. European leaders themselves decided to use the energy in political context and saying that Russia "uses energy as a weapon" when their politics had bitten them in their collective ass is plain stupid. And secondly it was Europe who decided to engage into economic war with Russia and that was the cause of all the disruptions - that's anything but being "reliable" on their part. Russia merely didn't do anything to appease the stubborn princess who decided to shot herself in the leg. I mean, c'mon, there was a moment when Europe actually expected to receive gas, but not pay for it due to sanctions - how idiotic is that? This exactly the kind of weird attitude I was talking about above. And given the confessions of former German chancellor, former French president, former and current Ukraine presidents making statements like "prepared for war" is super rich. We all saw how "well prepared" Russia was - both in combat and in the amount of frozen assets. I just don't get what the European leaders were expecting. Probably fell victims to the same attitude and totally forgot that when you ruin business relations they actually get ruined and no one owes them anything.

lispm 4y ago

> That is really doubtful, especially at this point when they've been full of seawater for so long. They have coating inside. This prevents corrosion for some time. Earlier this year there were reports of a cost estimate of $500 million and a time duration of one year for a repair. One of the pipelines hasn't been damaged, but maybe needs some equipment replaced -> pumps. > NS1 was operational for years "Was". It wasn't delivering natural gas when the explosion happened. Russia had stopped the gas transport already. Various reasons were given - technical problems and the sanctions against Russia. There was never any natural gas delivered via NS2. NS1 was stopped end of August 2022. If Russia ever wants to sell natural gas (again) via these pipelines , then it should stop their brutal war on the Ukraine NOW. > I don't think that's fair. It is. There is zero chance that Germany will take any gas delivered via these pipelines without a full political change in Russia.

foverzar 4y ago
> Earlier this year there were reports of a cost estimate of $500 million and a time duration of one year for a repair. So basically like building the pipe part anew. > There was never any natural gas delivered via NS2 Technically there was. It was pressurized. Meaning it was full of gas delivered up to the tap on the German side. > If Russia ever wants to sell natural gas (again) via these pipelines Gosh, I really hope not. I also hope it stops pumping gas through Ukraine and doesn't waste time on Turkish gas hub. Dealing with Europe who acts like this is some kind of privilege is a waste, IMO. > It is. There is zero chance that Germany will take any gas delivered via these pipelines You are being categorical at the expense of being realistic. It's been gorging on gas from these pipelines like crazy, while filling the reserves. And it still uses Russian gas via various "latvian blend" like schemes, as Russia continues to pay a huge-ass fee to Ukraine for using old soviet huge-ass pipeline. This implies a huge-ass demand on the other side of that pipe. (It's actually quite fun to observe reiteration of history as the whole anti-NS1/2 deal is so hugely similar to anti-Ukrainian pipeline back in the Soviet era)
- lispm 4y ago
  > So basically like building the pipe part anew. No, the cost of the Northstream 2 alone was roughly $11 billion. Much of the pipeline could be used, the explosion was only in a small region. > Technically there was. It was pressurized. Meaning it was full of gas delivered up to the tap on the German side. It was filled, but nothing was delivered into Germany. There was also no permission given to do that. > Dealing with Europe who acts like this is some kind of privilege is a waste, IMO. Russia has all the responsibility. They attacked the Ukraine. It's their choice. It has nothing to do with a 'privilege'. > You are being categorical at the expense of being realistic. Realistically Russia has removed themselves from being someone who we want to trade with for at least a decade. They are not a partner and they are not reliable. Russia started a war against not only the Ukraine, but also against the rest of Europe and they used the energy dependency as a weapon. Russia was preparing for the war for some time.
  - foverzar 4y ago
    > No, the cost of the Northstream 2 alone was roughly $11 billion. Much of the pipeline could be used, the explosion was only in a small region. Yes. You are citing the cost of the whole project, with all the infrastructure, pumping equipment, pipelaying ships, etc. The pipe is only one component. Besides, it doesn't matter if it's "a small region". As soon as the pipe gets full of water, it's basically dead in the water (pun intended). Lookup how these pipes get built. The sections are connected and hermetically sealed above the water, and then lowered so that no water gets in. You seem to be imagining that pumping out a few countries length of seawater is some kind of an easy task, but it's actually cheaper to disassemble and rebuild the whole thing. > It was filled, but nothing was delivered into Germany. There was also no permission given to do that. That's just rhetorics. If you turn off the water tap at your home, that doesn't mean the water is no longer delivered. It's still there, practically at your home. Not sure what "permissions" you are referring to. > Russia has all the responsibility. They attacked the Ukraine. It's their choice. It has nothing to do with a 'privilege'. I am not talking about Ukraine. I am talking about weird European attitude like it's some kind of privilege to supply them like everyone around owes them something. If they don't want Russian gas, then that's just businesses. > Realistically Russia has removed themselves from being someone who we want to trade with for at least a decade. They are not a partner and they are not reliable. > Russia started a war against not only the Ukraine, but also against the rest of Europe and they used the energy dependency as a weapon. Well that's just propaganda bullshit. First of all you've said it yourself that it's a matter of politics. European leaders themselves decided to use the energy in political context and saying that Russia "uses energy as a weapon" when their politics had bitten them in their collective ass is plain stupid. And secondly it was Europe who decided to engage into economic war with Russia and that was the cause of all the disruptions - that's anything but being "reliable" on their part. Russia merely didn't do anything to appease the stubborn princess who decided to shot herself in the leg. I mean, c'mon, there was a moment when Europe actually expected to receive gas, but not pay for it due to sanctions - how idiotic is that? This exactly the kind of weird attitude I was talking about above. And given the confessions of former German chancellor, former French president, former and current Ukraine presidents making statements like "prepared for war" is super rich. We all saw how "well prepared" Russia was - both in combat and in the amount of frozen assets. I just don't get what the European leaders were expecting. Probably fell victims to the same attitude and totally forgot that when you ruin business relations they actually get ruined and no one owes them anything.