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The author of that book has been writing about behavior for years. And yet when I once sent him a picture of B. F. Skinner, he didn’t know who that was. If you

by leobg 4y ago

The author of that book has been writing about behavior for years. And yet when I once sent him a picture of B. F. Skinner, he didn’t know who that was. If you really think you need to optimize yourself, I’d recommend to skip the millennial bestseller lists and to closer to the source. A few recommendations: Self Help Without the Hype (R. Epstein) Tiny Habits (BJ Fogg) Self-Directed Behavior: Self-Modification for Personal Adjustment (Watson/Tharp) Don't Shoot the Dog (Pryor) Really, just the first one will likely be enough.

epups 4y ago
Skinner and behaviorism has not been relevant for the analysis of human behavior since 1959.
- leobg 4y ago
  That is the mainstream view. I know. And yet books like Atomic Habits rank way up there in the bestseller lists. Skinner is probably the most underestimated figure in 20th century science. His ideas are generating billions in value to this day. And yet the sentiment most people hold about him is the one you just shared. I’m on my phone and can’t go into details. But the whole aspect of gamification - in games, social media, TikTok, productivity apps, learning apps - is very much OG Skinner. And ChatGPT reinforcement learning? Behaviorism applied to virtual agents.
- leobg 4y ago
  BTW, relevant to OP’s question: > Skinner was the happiest, most productive, most creative person I've ever known, largely because he was so skilled at self-management. That’s from the first book I mentioned.
- kaushikc 4y ago
  He very likely not be "irrelevant" for the foreseeable future when people speak about behaviour.
Handprint4469 4y ago
Is there any way to get the first book in e-book format? I only see options to buy a used physical copy, and international shipments to my country are... untrustworthy, at best.
- leobg 4y ago
  Hm. Maybe get it from Anna’s Archive and send the author a tip if you like it. It’s an old book. And he’s responsive. There is an article by the author that covers some of the topics of the book, which is freely available as a PDF: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1284070/pdf/jaba003000300545.pdf https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1284070/pdf/jab...
  - Handprint4469 4y ago
    > Maybe get it from Anna’s Archive Yeah I looked for it there and in other places, but there doesn't seem to be any digital copy available at all (legal or otherwise)
    - leobg 4y ago
      If you email me I can send you my notes. Contact info in profile.
      - Handprint4469 4y ago
        No worries, I found a used copy in a local bookstore, thanks!
        leobg 4y ago
        Awesome. Let me know how you liked it. It’s fairly short.
duckmysick 4y ago
> And yet when I once sent him a picture of B. F. Skinner, he didn’t know who that was I am familiar with Skinner and his work and I would also not recognize him from a photo. I also wouldn't recognize Freud, Jung, Pavlov, or Zimbardo from their pictures either. Am I missing something?
- leobg 4y ago
  What does "am familiar" mean? You have heard "of" them, or you have read their work? With Skinner, even if you just read a biography, I would imagine that it's hard that one would not want to Google more about his stuff... his "Baby In A Box" thing, pigeons playing ping-ping, 1960s learning machines, etc.. And there are several very interesting YouTube videos about these things, many originals from the 1950s-1980s. If one is even just mildly interested in learning more about the kind of behavior modification that Skinner popularized, it seems really odd to me how one could not look at the man himself. Besides, there are photos in most biographies. [1] I don't expect the person on the street to know who Skinner is. But if someone makes their living writing blog posts and books about Skinnerian ideas, I do expect them to have done their homework. When I was interested in Jung, I actually went to Küsnacht. Even met his grandson. Watched all the video interviews with him that still exist. And I'm not a journalist at all. Just deeply curious when I encounter someone with ideas that interest me. But perhaps that's exactly my point: Being successful in writing and marketing books about behavior modification and actually modifying behavior are two completely different sets of skills. OG Skinner one the one hand and these popular books based on his ideas on the other hand are, to me, polar opposites: Skinner did the experiments and found the things that worked. But he was terrible at anything one could consider marketing or self-promotion. The Aircrib story is the best example. Good stuff; terrible packaging. A book on today's bestseller list about behavior modification that's written by an author who, apparently, has never even read a biography of Skinner, or watched a single interview with him, is the very opposite. Great packaging; zero original work. Skinner, to me, is Zero to One. Self-Help books repackaging his ideas are One to Many. It's totally fine that this second category exists. Yet if people struggle with the second category of material, I want to encourage them to go looking closer to the source. Like in programming, where you may go from using someone else's paid API to using an open source library. It increases your understanding of the problem space, makes you feel more confident in your abilities, and, most important of all, makes you appreciate the work of all those that came before you. [1] B.F. Skinner: A Life, by Daniel W. Bjork is amazing. I think it would be a fun read even to someone not interested in psychology per se, given the "hacker mindset", natural curiosity and "make do" mentality that Skinner exemplified.

by leobg 4y ago

epups 4y ago

Skinner and behaviorism has not been relevant for the analysis of human behavior since 1959.

leobg 4y ago
That is the mainstream view. I know. And yet books like Atomic Habits rank way up there in the bestseller lists. Skinner is probably the most underestimated figure in 20th century science. His ideas are generating billions in value to this day. And yet the sentiment most people hold about him is the one you just shared. I’m on my phone and can’t go into details. But the whole aspect of gamification - in games, social media, TikTok, productivity apps, learning apps - is very much OG Skinner. And ChatGPT reinforcement learning? Behaviorism applied to virtual agents.
leobg 4y ago
BTW, relevant to OP’s question: > Skinner was the happiest, most productive, most creative person I've ever known, largely because he was so skilled at self-management. That’s from the first book I mentioned.
kaushikc 4y ago
He very likely not be "irrelevant" for the foreseeable future when people speak about behaviour.

Handprint4469 4y ago

Is there any way to get the first book in e-book format? I only see options to buy a used physical copy, and international shipments to my country are... untrustworthy, at best.

leobg 4y ago
Hm. Maybe get it from Anna’s Archive and send the author a tip if you like it. It’s an old book. And he’s responsive. There is an article by the author that covers some of the topics of the book, which is freely available as a PDF: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1284070/pdf/jaba003000300545.pdf https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1284070/pdf/jab...
- Handprint4469 4y ago
  > Maybe get it from Anna’s Archive Yeah I looked for it there and in other places, but there doesn't seem to be any digital copy available at all (legal or otherwise)
  - leobg 4y ago
    If you email me I can send you my notes. Contact info in profile.
    - Handprint4469 4y ago
      No worries, I found a used copy in a local bookstore, thanks!
      - leobg 4y ago
        Awesome. Let me know how you liked it. It’s fairly short.

duckmysick 4y ago

> And yet when I once sent him a picture of B. F. Skinner, he didn’t know who that was I am familiar with Skinner and his work and I would also not recognize him from a photo. I also wouldn't recognize Freud, Jung, Pavlov, or Zimbardo from their pictures either. Am I missing something?

leobg 4y ago
What does "am familiar" mean? You have heard "of" them, or you have read their work? With Skinner, even if you just read a biography, I would imagine that it's hard that one would not want to Google more about his stuff... his "Baby In A Box" thing, pigeons playing ping-ping, 1960s learning machines, etc.. And there are several very interesting YouTube videos about these things, many originals from the 1950s-1980s. If one is even just mildly interested in learning more about the kind of behavior modification that Skinner popularized, it seems really odd to me how one could not look at the man himself. Besides, there are photos in most biographies. [1] I don't expect the person on the street to know who Skinner is. But if someone makes their living writing blog posts and books about Skinnerian ideas, I do expect them to have done their homework. When I was interested in Jung, I actually went to Küsnacht. Even met his grandson. Watched all the video interviews with him that still exist. And I'm not a journalist at all. Just deeply curious when I encounter someone with ideas that interest me. But perhaps that's exactly my point: Being successful in writing and marketing books about behavior modification and actually modifying behavior are two completely different sets of skills. OG Skinner one the one hand and these popular books based on his ideas on the other hand are, to me, polar opposites: Skinner did the experiments and found the things that worked. But he was terrible at anything one could consider marketing or self-promotion. The Aircrib story is the best example. Good stuff; terrible packaging. A book on today's bestseller list about behavior modification that's written by an author who, apparently, has never even read a biography of Skinner, or watched a single interview with him, is the very opposite. Great packaging; zero original work. Skinner, to me, is Zero to One. Self-Help books repackaging his ideas are One to Many. It's totally fine that this second category exists. Yet if people struggle with the second category of material, I want to encourage them to go looking closer to the source. Like in programming, where you may go from using someone else's paid API to using an open source library. It increases your understanding of the problem space, makes you feel more confident in your abilities, and, most important of all, makes you appreciate the work of all those that came before you. [1] B.F. Skinner: A Life, by Daniel W. Bjork is amazing. I think it would be a fun read even to someone not interested in psychology per se, given the "hacker mindset", natural curiosity and "make do" mentality that Skinner exemplified.