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> Water samples on Friday showed the plume is now completely gone, DeWine said. I saw an unverified video linked on reddit that alleged to show that the contam

by jerry1979 4y ago

> Water samples on Friday showed the plume is now completely gone, DeWine said. I saw an unverified video linked on reddit that alleged to show that the contaminants sink to the bottom of water [1]. Could this be the reason why the water does not appear contaminated? [1] https://old.reddit.com/r/videos/comments/11480zm/east_palestine_oh_water_condition/ https://old.reddit.com/r/videos/comments/11480zm/east_palest...

vore 4y ago
I don't mean to downplay the disaster, but just because there's a sheen that appears when disturbing the creekbed doesn't indicate it's a result of the contamination from the disaster or even petroleum-related contamination at all: for instance, bacteria can form a similar oil-like sheen on water. I don't think it's possible to conclude anything without sampling the water, and definitely not from a video of someone just stirring up the water. (as also mentioned in the Reddit comments, the fact that the Twitter poster is a staunch North Korea supporter should make people evaluate the context of this video a little more critically -- I don't mean they can't be right, but they are at least pushing this with a certain agenda)
- icelancer 4y ago
  The other person who posted a viral video of the water with an oil-like sheen was US Senator JD Vance, who is... ahh... well, basically the furthest thing from what the other Twitter poster put out.
  - gruez 4y ago
    Horseshoe theory. Both the extreme left and the extreme right has reason to doubt/oppose the current political establishment.
    - dsfyu404ed 4y ago
      The nice thing about extremists is that they're sufficiently non-invested in making the status quo look good that they're happy to point out when it's shit. Frankly I really like the extremists on both sides of the isle. While I might vehemently disagree with them on specifics they are at least generally principled people who derive their policy positions from their beliefs logically and I have respect for that.
      - AnimalMuppet 4y ago
        But they'll also happily claim that the status quo is terrible even when it is in fact objectively quite good. Re your second paragraph: Things that logically derive from insane starting points can still be insane. Often are, in fact. When they are right, they are right only by random accident. I'm not saying "don't read them", but don't use what they say to adjust your priors very much.
      - andsoitis 4y ago
        > While I might vehemently disagree with them on specifics they are at least generally principled people Being so staunchly principled that you cannot compromise or be practical or be open to have your mind changed is not a virtue, in my mind. If anything it is arrogant. > who derive their policy positions from their beliefs logically and I have respect for that. Outcomes are more important. If your beliefs are abhorrent then your policies will follow. That is not something to admire.
      - ericmay 4y ago
        Yes but being principled to the point that you do obviously stupid things isn’t good, and it’s even worse when idealogical zealots seize hold of power. We want people to poke holes in things which is what I think you were getting at, but they should be nowhere near anything serious.
    - myko 4y ago
      Interestingly the GOP is the "extreme right" in the US, where the Democratic party is primarily centrist/center right folks. Makes for really weird inter-party interactions within the Democrats.
  - vore 4y ago
    JD Vance has a similar motivation for making the current administration take the flak for it, so I would also take him with a grain of salt.
    - newsclues 4y ago
      The government should want to do testing and prove Vance to be a conspiracy loony then right?
      - vore 4y ago
        Of course. I don't doubt the scale of the disaster but it's very easy in the face of uncertainty for anyone to jump to conclusions without doing their due diligence, either due to some agenda or just inadvertently.
      - deleted 4y ago
        [deleted]
    - deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]
    - briandear 4y ago
      The Air Traffic Control meltdown we’re seeing (ask any airline pilot about the vaccine mandate’s effect on ATC and pilot early retirement/staffing) the shipping port mess in 2021, continuing supply chain transport issues, seemingly frequent train crashes — Shouldn’t Buttigieg be taking flak? The FAA budget for example stated a priority for “equity” and inclusion. Shouldn’t the priority be air fucking safety? The FAA is a mess right now. And it’s Buttigieg’s fault. But at least we were able to spend millions changing “airmen” to “air missions” in the NOTAM system — all while doing nothing to actually fix the NOTAM system. Now the FAA also wants to stop people from using the term “cockpit” — not realizing that there is nothing in the history of that word that is “gendered.” Just stupidity and madness. JD Vance is right to hammer the administration: while DoT is worrying about gendered language, trains are derailing with toxic chemicals and planes are nearly crashing because of faulty ATC. https://aerocorner.com/blog/why-is-cockpit-called-cockpit/ https://aerocorner.com/blog/why-is-cockpit-called-cockpit/
- hanselot 4y ago
  I'm not trying to be unreasonable but if this was a school shooting everyone would be calling for the ban of all guns. The scale of this is vastly greater, yet the reaction is just unfathomable to me given the scale of this disaster. Again, not trying to stir anything. Just an observation.
  - shadowgovt 4y ago
    > The scale of this is vastly greater The probable human deaths from this spill is a number somewhere between zero and 10 over decades. That's a massive difference from a mass-casualty shooting.
    - newsclues 4y ago
      Does that count the people that may die early of cancer in decades to come?
      - shadowgovt 4y ago
        Yes. The carcinogenic effects of acute exposure to vinyl chloride are low, and most of it was burned off intentionally by setting the train cars on fire. Those most at risk are the first responders; everyone who heeded the evacuation order should be pretty much fine.
        TrispusAttucks 4y ago
        Burning vinyl chlorine turns it into phosgene. The deadliest chemical weapon from WW1. I'd say there's some risk involved. https://www.hitc.com/en-gb/2023/02/17/was-vinyl-chloride-used-in-world-war-i-wwi-and-what-does-it-do-to-the-body/ https://www.hitc.com/en-gb/2023/02/17/was-vinyl-chloride-use...
        shadowgovt 4y ago
        Some risk, yes, which is why I mentioned the first responders, as they were closest to the burn itself. Phosgene breaks down in the environment on timescales measured from hours to days. The five-day evac window was more than enough to remove all appreciable amounts of phosgene from the environment. And given how reactive it is, you can trust the lack of anyone showing up in a hospital in east Ohio looking like they climbed out of an eastern-front trench as indicative that the phosgene has not caused harm. It's real easy to over-estimate the damage this spill will do. In practice, people have been using (and spilling) vinyl chloride for over 180 years; we have a pretty good sense of the damage it can do. Not a good situation, but far on the low end of environmental impact risks (somewhere north of "a car full of diapers" and far, far south of "a car full of perchloroethylene").
- FpUser 4y ago
  >"he fact that the Twitter poster is a staunch North Korea supporter should make people evaluate the context of this video a little more critically" I've heard Putin saying that the sky is blue. Now I have to wear colored glasses.

vore 4y ago

I don't mean to downplay the disaster, but just because there's a sheen that appears when disturbing the creekbed doesn't indicate it's a result of the contamination from the disaster or even petroleum-related contamination at all: for instance, bacteria can form a similar oil-like sheen on water. I don't think it's possible to conclude anything without sampling the water, and definitely not from a video of someone just stirring up the water. (as also mentioned in the Reddit comments, the fact that the Twitter poster is a staunch North Korea supporter should make people evaluate the context of this video a little more critically -- I don't mean they can't be right, but they are at least pushing this with a certain agenda)

icelancer 4y ago
The other person who posted a viral video of the water with an oil-like sheen was US Senator JD Vance, who is... ahh... well, basically the furthest thing from what the other Twitter poster put out.
- gruez 4y ago
  Horseshoe theory. Both the extreme left and the extreme right has reason to doubt/oppose the current political establishment.
  - dsfyu404ed 4y ago
    The nice thing about extremists is that they're sufficiently non-invested in making the status quo look good that they're happy to point out when it's shit. Frankly I really like the extremists on both sides of the isle. While I might vehemently disagree with them on specifics they are at least generally principled people who derive their policy positions from their beliefs logically and I have respect for that.
    - AnimalMuppet 4y ago
      But they'll also happily claim that the status quo is terrible even when it is in fact objectively quite good. Re your second paragraph: Things that logically derive from insane starting points can still be insane. Often are, in fact. When they are right, they are right only by random accident. I'm not saying "don't read them", but don't use what they say to adjust your priors very much.
    - andsoitis 4y ago
      > While I might vehemently disagree with them on specifics they are at least generally principled people Being so staunchly principled that you cannot compromise or be practical or be open to have your mind changed is not a virtue, in my mind. If anything it is arrogant. > who derive their policy positions from their beliefs logically and I have respect for that. Outcomes are more important. If your beliefs are abhorrent then your policies will follow. That is not something to admire.
    - ericmay 4y ago
      Yes but being principled to the point that you do obviously stupid things isn’t good, and it’s even worse when idealogical zealots seize hold of power. We want people to poke holes in things which is what I think you were getting at, but they should be nowhere near anything serious.
  - myko 4y ago
    Interestingly the GOP is the "extreme right" in the US, where the Democratic party is primarily centrist/center right folks. Makes for really weird inter-party interactions within the Democrats.
- vore 4y ago
  JD Vance has a similar motivation for making the current administration take the flak for it, so I would also take him with a grain of salt.
  - newsclues 4y ago
    The government should want to do testing and prove Vance to be a conspiracy loony then right?
    - vore 4y ago
      Of course. I don't doubt the scale of the disaster but it's very easy in the face of uncertainty for anyone to jump to conclusions without doing their due diligence, either due to some agenda or just inadvertently.
    - deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
  - briandear 4y ago
    The Air Traffic Control meltdown we’re seeing (ask any airline pilot about the vaccine mandate’s effect on ATC and pilot early retirement/staffing) the shipping port mess in 2021, continuing supply chain transport issues, seemingly frequent train crashes — Shouldn’t Buttigieg be taking flak? The FAA budget for example stated a priority for “equity” and inclusion. Shouldn’t the priority be air fucking safety? The FAA is a mess right now. And it’s Buttigieg’s fault. But at least we were able to spend millions changing “airmen” to “air missions” in the NOTAM system — all while doing nothing to actually fix the NOTAM system. Now the FAA also wants to stop people from using the term “cockpit” — not realizing that there is nothing in the history of that word that is “gendered.” Just stupidity and madness. JD Vance is right to hammer the administration: while DoT is worrying about gendered language, trains are derailing with toxic chemicals and planes are nearly crashing because of faulty ATC. https://aerocorner.com/blog/why-is-cockpit-called-cockpit/ https://aerocorner.com/blog/why-is-cockpit-called-cockpit/
hanselot 4y ago
I'm not trying to be unreasonable but if this was a school shooting everyone would be calling for the ban of all guns. The scale of this is vastly greater, yet the reaction is just unfathomable to me given the scale of this disaster. Again, not trying to stir anything. Just an observation.
- shadowgovt 4y ago
  > The scale of this is vastly greater The probable human deaths from this spill is a number somewhere between zero and 10 over decades. That's a massive difference from a mass-casualty shooting.
  - newsclues 4y ago
    Does that count the people that may die early of cancer in decades to come?
    - shadowgovt 4y ago
      Yes. The carcinogenic effects of acute exposure to vinyl chloride are low, and most of it was burned off intentionally by setting the train cars on fire. Those most at risk are the first responders; everyone who heeded the evacuation order should be pretty much fine.
      - TrispusAttucks 4y ago
        Burning vinyl chlorine turns it into phosgene. The deadliest chemical weapon from WW1. I'd say there's some risk involved. https://www.hitc.com/en-gb/2023/02/17/was-vinyl-chloride-used-in-world-war-i-wwi-and-what-does-it-do-to-the-body/ https://www.hitc.com/en-gb/2023/02/17/was-vinyl-chloride-use...
        shadowgovt 4y ago
        Some risk, yes, which is why I mentioned the first responders, as they were closest to the burn itself. Phosgene breaks down in the environment on timescales measured from hours to days. The five-day evac window was more than enough to remove all appreciable amounts of phosgene from the environment. And given how reactive it is, you can trust the lack of anyone showing up in a hospital in east Ohio looking like they climbed out of an eastern-front trench as indicative that the phosgene has not caused harm. It's real easy to over-estimate the damage this spill will do. In practice, people have been using (and spilling) vinyl chloride for over 180 years; we have a pretty good sense of the damage it can do. Not a good situation, but far on the low end of environmental impact risks (somewhere north of "a car full of diapers" and far, far south of "a car full of perchloroethylene").
FpUser 4y ago
>"he fact that the Twitter poster is a staunch North Korea supporter should make people evaluate the context of this video a little more critically" I've heard Putin saying that the sky is blue. Now I have to wear colored glasses.